So I can get an AKC dog for hundreds of dollars, but they cannot be registered and have to be spayed or neutered. However for a couple hundred more (worth it at that level of money) they can be registered and shown and don’t have to be a eunuch. But even if you pay the $200 more breeders can be weird. One of them names the dog and registers it under her breedery. Another retains partial ownership of the dog. Mrs. Cad explained that these breeders want to control the bloodlines. If you want to control the bloodline - DON’T SELL THE DOG.
Can anyone explain how why I have to pay $1200 for a dog that can never be shown or bred? Or $1400 to let someone else “own” the dog?
Not all purebred dogs are show-quality. Many breeders will sell those pups for a bit less money with a “limited” AKC registration and often requiring the dog be spayed or neutered by a certain age. Offspring of a dog with a limited registration cannot be registered, and the dog can’t be shown in conformation, although they most certainly can compete in all sorts of working trials - obedience, tracking, herding, agility etc.
As to why keep all show-worthy offspring - that’s probably not financially feasible. Showing is an expensive hobby. There’s a big network of breed clubs, many breed fanciers know each other so the pup is often sold specifically to a proven show or working home.
And I get that, but why is the dog so expensive if not show-worthy. Or maybe another way to ask that why is a show-worthy dog only a couple hundred more. I could understand it better if the differential were maybe $1000 dollars like $1500 for a show dog to $500 for a non-shower.
Because there’s a lot more to the dog than being conformationally correct, I guess?
I bought a dog once (long haired Rottweiler puppy) and the breeder didn’t charge any less because she didn’t consider the non-show pups to be inferior. And she still had the same amount of investment in the litter, in terms of health testing the sire and dam and all that.
Many people want a particular breed, but have no intention of showing in the conformation ring. I certainly didn’t. However that dog went on to get obedience, tracking a agility titles. I like the breed for their personality and working ability. The couple of Rottweilers I have bought from breeders, I paid the money because I wanted a structurally sound, healthy dog.
My aunt and uncle breed and occasionally show. It’s interesting visiting their house where there are certain dogs you can play with and others you aren’t supposed to touch.
They explained the relatively-minor price difference between “showable” puppies and non-showable puppies once as the fact that it costs roughly the same to raise a dog be it a show dog or not (at least from just-born --> “sellable” age (usually a few months). The main difference comes from the cost for AKC registration and some of the other paperwork that has to get filled out to “prove” the bloodline of the show dog.
Over the life of the dog, a show dog tends to cost more because the show-er wants to keep it extra-healthy, the dog may get more frequent baths or grooming, let alone travel to shows and so on. But, those first couple months are more-or-less the same.
AKC dog show game involves a lot of insanity. The one that really gets me is where they will give someone a dog at a big discount or even free but they hold the papers until the dog has “finished” in show, in other words become a champion. The dog owner will spend thousands of dollars chasing ribbons so they can get the papers on thier free dog. A lot of the show dogs will travel to out of the way shows with less competion so they can win. Sometimes they will even use friends to boost up the entries for enough points to become a major show toward championship points.
I do like the idea of maintaining breed standards by way of competition but the system is far from flawless.
Maybe it’s a little different with the CKC, but the only restriction I was aware of when I bought my pedigree Bernese Mountain Dog was the one on “no breeding”, and in fact I’m not even sure it even prohibited that as opposed to prohibiting the sale of any offspring as legitimate pedigree dogs. Otherwise there were no prohibitions on showing, no mandatory neutering (indeed he wasn’t neutered for much longer than normal as I had my doubts about the benefits), and certainly no prohibitions on registration as the breeder himself registers the dog and that’s the proof of his bloodline. But you definitely wouldn’t be able breed pups and register them without all the additional conditions, basically becoming an authorized breeder yourself.
The breeders don’t want the love children of your dog getting registered. Your dog might mate with one of those dogs, and they don’t want a paper trail of those low life offspring going back to their aristocratic line.
Or in simpler dollar and cents terms, they don’t want to help you be a competitor if you’re not going to pay them something extra.
There’s also the health aspect - those interested in particular lines may want to check with, say, the OFA (in the US) to check for patterns of, say, hip or elbow dysplasia, or deafness, or cardiac problems. People who are serious about breeding responsibly do everything they can to keep their lines free of congenital defects.
My long-haired Rottweiler donated DNA to an MSU study which has identified the genes for long hair. In Rottweilers, it’s a recessive gene - both parents can be absolutely correct (his were) but if they both carry that gene, the two will produce pups with long hair.
What I can’t understand are the high prices pet shops want for “designer dogs”. I know, I’m a muggle, but to me, a labrador crossed with a poodle isn’t a high priced labradoodle, it’s a MUTT!
We got our dog 10 years ago from an AKC breeder. The dog’s parents were both champions, and our dog is the only one out of her litter that specifically was a non-show home companion. Our deal with the breeder was this - our dog cost $1,000, and we could get her papers after we sent the breeder proof that she had been spayed. We gladly did this, since we would spay / neuter any pet.
We didn’t have any problems with the deal. We love Pepper to pieces, and the breeder has become a good friend of our family.
Not exactly the same but that’s what I see almost every time. Here is an AKC dog. Oh wait, you only want to pay $1400 and not $1650? Then you don’t get any papers.
I also want to say, that IMHO the AKC has been a disaster for dog breed. They breed to certain outward appearance factors, some of which are useless. Rarely is overall health or temperament part of the guidelines.
As with so many slick marketing campaigns, the AKC has glossed over the downside of purebred dogs, including the fact that they often suffer miserably from congenital defects and inherited diseases. So, here is the info that you won’t hear from the AKC about those top 10 breeds:…Why go for a costly, sickly, mass-produced purebred when shelters are full of one-of-a-kind mixed breeds who are literally dying for a home? By adopting a wonderful mutt, you’ll save a life and help reduce animal homelessness while also boosting your chances of a more robust new furry friend, as mixed-breed dogs have demonstrated better health and longer life spans than their purebred cousins. And if you must have a “pedigree” dog then go to the “breed rescue” groups on the internet and you will find the love of your life.
*The program featured several breeds of dogs that were known to have genetic health problems – however, the Kennel Club still seems to reward exaggerated breed traits. The push for these exaggerated breed traits has created a wealth of health problems: brain tumors in some spaniels, bulldogs that can barely breath – and cannot breed on their own – among other health problems.
The program isolates two breeding issues that are causing most of the problems: Massive in-breeding and line-breeding; and breeding for exaggerated looks (think heavily wrinkled or really short muzzles). Maybe the most distrubing part of the entire program was that instead of accepting being interviewed for the program, the AKC refused to be interviewed.
In its conclusion, the program reaches the same conclusion that Chrisitie proposed last year – that the AKC needs to open up their breed registry - or, encourage some cross breeding to get rid of some of the exaggerated features.*
A labradoodle that is a cross between a pure Lab and a pure poodle is somewhat “prized” in that they try to breed the “problems” (e.g. allergy-related ones) out of the two breeds and you have the “best of both worlds”.
This is also why an “F1” Labradoodle (or Goldendoodle, or Cockapoo) - one where one parent is a purebred Lab (/ Golden Retriever / Cocker Spaniel) and the other a purebred poodle - is more prized than a Labradoodle that has two other Labradoodles as parents. Apparently, the more generations of Labradoodle-Labradoodle breeding that are involved, the more likely that the “problems” that they tried to breed out in the first place are bred back in.
If I understand correctly, this is also why the AKC refuses to accept Labradoodles as a breed. I am under the impression that, in Australia, they prefer the multi-generation breeded dogs.
I paid $1200 for my Boston Terrier. The breeder only let her go because she’s too small to safely breed. She’s 10.5 lbs and her brothers/sisters are 15lbs and have won ribbons. Her size also made her ineligible to show.
I had to agree to get her spayed. Which I did.
She’s perfect for me. I’ve owned a 18lb Boston before and he was too big. I like lap dogs. My new girl fits just right.
You guys really don’t understand. The showdog world is a closed society with its own rules, its virtually religious beliefs, its ways of casting into the outer darkness those who do not obey its laws. Its codes do not conform to science nor indeed to simple common sense. Your brain will get very tired trying to understand this world.
As far as the money goes – in dogs, you do not get what you pay for, you pay what the market will bear. Registration papers are a time-tested way to increase price. There is absolutely no quality control, believe me. Breeders are typically very well meaning people, but even the most intelligent must ignore the facts or get out of the business, there are no other choices. And virtually no buyers know what those facts are.
The only reason someone who just wants a pet should pay more than a few hundred dollars is because they are operating on a mistaken set of assumptions.
The only truly good reason to buy from a dog breeder is for a performance dog (protection, hunting, herding, etc) which needs certain genetic skills, and that breeder has proven that he/she can produce that kind of dog. Bad reasons: “I want a dog just like the dog I grew up with” (you can’t step in the same river twice), “I love the look” (looks are the most minor part of enjoying living with a dog), “a purebred dog is just . . . better” (No).
The tiered pricing system is fairly new, it’s purely an effort to control the reproduction of the dogs the breeder sells. In large part this is to try to manage the one thing breeders value amongst themselves, reputation. Though there is no legal means to do this, breeders wish there was.
Designer aka hybrid dogs? They are nothing more (or less) than up-branded crossbreds. Crossbreeding is a perfectly logical and much-used method of breeding domestic animals. But there is no magic involved. Except for hybrid vigor (mostly seen in early growth and in reproduction) the animals produced will rarely exceed the virtues of the parents although they will be more likely to avoid the expression of recessive traits – if only one parent has the genes for that trait, which is far from universally the case.
We had a couple of spoodles and they were great because we got the strength inherent in a larger DNA pool and they didn’t shed hair. I now have a pugalier that is awesome as the cav balances out some of the pugs issues with it’s face.
We had a beautiful weimaraner growing up, he was from a hunting line and was big and strong and lived a long age, when I look at the “show” dogs they are a lot smaller and don’t seem to have the vitality ours had.
Show breeding is bordering on animal cruelty, who am I kidding a lot of those dogs die young from pretty horrible diseases etc.
We have a Corgidor that Wife paid $375 for. There seems to be a genetic distance where the cross just results in a Generic Dog, in his case one that is 40lbs, black with a white bib, and looks like half the mutts you see. (Also available in yellow with a white bib to cover the other half of the mutts you see.) I saw that as a reason I could waste some money, too.
I have to wonder how many of these sales terms are legally enforceable. What does “partial ownership of the dog” mean, legally and practically speaking? Though I can understand that a breeder has an interest in controlling the bloodline, maintaining legal ownership of an animal not under their direct control seems like an eminently unwise decision. If the dog injures someone or damages someone’s property, surely they would share liability?
