I was in a minor accident last night, here is what happened. I live on a hill, on a road that is snowy and does not get plowed very often. Yesterday I left my driveway and drove about the length of one house when I braked to approach the intersection at the bottom of the hill, where I was going to turn right. I began sliding and slid to the bottom of the hill (about one house length, the intersection is at the bottom of the hill.) My back end kicked out a little and I slid through the intersection and ended up hitting another car that was approaching the intersection from my right. When she saw me starting to slide down the hill, she also tried to stop but couldn’t because she slid too. I ended up hitting her front drivers corner (I broke the headlight) with my driver’s side corner (same damage).
There is no signage (yield or stop) at the intersection at all. I live on a side street that gets very little traffic.
The officer gave me a ticket that says “change course to interfere”. When I look up the charge on the listed website, there is nothing that matches that description. I don’t know what exactly this phrase means, and I don’t know how much this ticket is for. I googled the phrase and got zero hits. (I can’t call the court today b/c they are closed for president’s day, I guess I will try to call them tomorrow.)
Does anyone know what this means?
Also, do weather conditions matter in a traffic ticket? I have never even considered contesting a ticket before, but I was not speeding (only going about 10mph) and really, there was nothing I could do once I started sliding down the hill. Would a kindly judge have mercy on me or am I wasting my time? I don’t dispute that I slid down the hill. I just don’t know what I could have done about it - I can’t go up the hill the other way because I can’t take off uphill from a dead stop, I can only go down.
In some counties or states they drop the ticket if you can prove your insurance paid for the damage to the other car. That is true here in NC, check with the DA to find out if they will agree to that. You can also pay for the damage out of your own pocket, just get a letter from the other person to prove you paid them.
Usually the ticket will also list the numerical code of the specific ordinance, or law. If the charge is worded improperly, or not specific enough, you can have the charge flat out dropped. I’ve been in those shoes. A Judge once actually read the mis-stated charge aloud, looked puzzled, and dismissed it! My lucky day, although I still had to miss work to go to court. Good luck.
Interesting, bobo t. Sometimes when people are in collisions, one or more parties expects someone to get a ticket, even when there isn’t a clear “at fault” party. Was the person you crashed into really upset? Could a cop write a ticket and put a gibberish infraction on it specifically so that you could get it dismissed later? I’ve talked to some cops before who have written tickets just because they felt they had to, but really wouldn’t have cared if it wasn’t their job.
Velma, it sounds to me from your description that you *were *at fault. You lost control of your vehicle. Sure, conditions were bad, but it’s your job to take that into account when choosing to operate a motor vehicle.
If I have misunderstood the situation, please accept my apologies.
I do live in Michigan - thanks for that link! The court website listed on my ticket had the “improper turn” ones listed but not the specific wording that is on my ticket. I guess I am getting cited for making an improper right turn, which seems kind of mean, since the ice made me slide out, not something I was doing. The officer even said “that’s why we call them accidents.”
The other woman in the accident was not upset with me at all, in fact we were jokingly introducing ourselves to each other (we both apparantly live close to each other). She said she wished I had hit her harder, to total her car. She actually slipped and fell on the ice making her way over to my car and I helped her up.
After the police officer came and took my statement, he took both of our info back to his car and then came out and gave us both a card with the report number on it, and then gave me the ticket. I asked if the accident was not due to conditions, and he said he “was supposed to assign a citation to somebody”. The other woman then asked if she could give her version of events, and he said yes, then she actually backed up my statement that she also slid in her car. He still maintained that I was to blame. When I asked him if I could fight the ticket in court, he seemed frustrated with me and said he was done arguing with me about it (I was not being unrespectful of him, I just wanted to know. ) then he got back in his car.
I have absolutely no knowledge of the way fighting a ticket works, I feel I have nothing to really dispute…I mean, I did slide down the hill and make an “improper right turn” in that I was sliding across the ice instead of properly turning. But are road conditions ever considered a valid excuse in court, or would I be wasting everyone’s time? The cop knew it was icy but he still gave me the ticket. The biggest factor for me here is if I am considered to blame in this accident I not only pay the ticket, but my insurance deductible, whereas if I am 50% or less to blame, I get it waived. I am trying to determine if going to court could help me at all.
if you post the state and numerical code that is probably listed somewhere on the ticket, I’d be happy to look it up for you. (It might have some letters in front of the numbers as well)
Thank you! It is actually really hard to read my copy. State of Michigan, in the “Ordinance Box”, it looks like either 640 or 648, then under description it says “change course to interfere.” Under Offense Code it is pretty hard to tell…maybe L650, or LE50, or L6SO or something?
About you getting the ticket and not the other driver- are you sure this is an actual intersection of two streets and that there is no stop or yield sign at all? I can’t see how you could determine who has the right-of way without a sign, unless one “street” is actually a driveway.
I’d guess he picked you to get the ticket because it sounds like you were sliding sideways, while the other car was still oriented correctly, even if she was also sliding. Both out of control, but you were more so.
I have no idea how that affects you legally, though.
Uncontrolled intersection. Traffic codes in a given state will explicitly provide the rules concerning these. Usually, “yield to driver on the right” at a four way intersection, or treat it as a yield sign if it’s a T-junction, and you’re not on the through part. I’m mildly surprised if you haven’t seen them in residential neighborhoods or rural areas.
With MikeV’s post I would guess that the infraction was similar to what you say, Saltire–Velma got the ticket for crossing the “center line” (imaginary, if not painted) and striking someone while on the wrong side of the road. He may have meant to write “change lane to interfere” but got the wording conflated with the “change course” codes.
What people are trying to tell you is that that line of reasoning is a waste of everyone’s time. If your car goes out of your control, it’s still your responsibility even if it was due to the weather. When it’s foggy, it’s your responsibility to slow down so you don’t hit things due to limited visibility. When the road is icy, it’s your responsibility to keep the car in control, either by 1) parking it, or 2) not driving it in places like hills where you’re going to go out of control, or 3) taking extra actions to ensure you can keep the car in control (e.g. by using traction devices like studded tires or chains). I’m not trying to be harsh, but that’s the way it works. This is probably why the cop got impatient with you.
You may be able to squeak out of the ticket if it was written up improperly and doesn’t make sense, but arguing that it’s not your fault because of the ice is just going to get you laughed at.
This is my experience as well. My first ticket ever was for “too fast for conditions,” which is what the officer wrote me up for after establishing that I (a) wasn’t speeding and (b) locked up my brakes trying not to hit the car I rear-ended. Essentially the “conditions” in that case were the wet road and that I didn’t know to pump my brakes. (I was 16.)
Option 1) My first thought is Offense Code 2640, “failed to stop leaving alley or private drive” which is charged under Motor Vehicle Code Section 257.652. If this is the correct code, it means you failed to stop or yield the right of way; its a civil infraction, which means its is not a crime. Comes with a max 2 points according this document, used by the Michigan Court System (warning: pdf)
Option 2) Alternatively, “650” might be shorthand for " Motor Vehicle Code Section 257.650" (it appears practically all traffic violations start with 257) which is “Improper Turn” also a civil infraction.
Without asserting any legal knowledge of the Michigan traffic system, I would guess that “changed course to interfere” is a police short hand for what they observed to happen, not the crime/violation/infraction that you are charged with.
I apologize I can’t be more certain what the different boxes definitively mean. I’m just not familiar with Michigan tickets! I hope this helped anyway. You might be able to call the Clerk of the Court (at your local District Court – or Traffic Court, if they are separate) to clarify what it is you are charged with.
To all explaining that I am at fault - I do not dispute that I slid on the ice, however, the other driver did also, and I just have to prove to my insurance that I am only 50% at fault here to avoid my deductable cost. The insurance company looks at different things when determining fault, so if the report says I slid sideways while she slid forward, that makes a difference than if it said I was driving too fast for conditions. (I was actually expecting that ticket, if I got one, that seems to be the catch all ticket people get when there is sliding around, although too fast in this instance seems to be “driving at all”.) I am not sure if disputing the ticket in court has any bearing on what the insurance company decides, anyway.
I have been in situations in the past where police let people go in conditions like these, after a big snowstorm they often let people off because roads are just really bad. This ticket was just a new one for me - I have never heard this phrase before and since I couldn’t find any info on it even on the court’s website, I was unsure what exactly it was for. I wanted to know exactly what the officer was saying happened before I talked to my insurance company.
Our road really is a hazard in the winter. We have had instances in the past when we woke up to find several parked cars clustered at the bottom of the hill - they had slid down overnight. Sometimes people get trapped at the bottom because they just can’t make their way up the hill in any direction. It sucks.
If you happen to live in the city of Kentwood Michigan, “changed course to interfere” is a violation with a $105 fine. (click link and hit ctrl+f to search for “changed” because it’s way down the list)
Does the police report indicate fault? A ticket isn’t indicative of fault. Of course if you slid into a lane that you weren’t entitled to enter into to – despite the circumstances – it’s your fault.
However I don’t know if I just have good insurance, or if it’s standard for Michigan policies, but when I backed into a crane and destroyed my C-pillar and rear glass, it was 100% my fault, but because the insurance company ruled that I wasn’t negligent, they covered my deductible.
I choose to carry a very high deductible, but I understand some people don’t. Are you sure you just don’t want to pay for your damage out of pocket, since you seem to indicate that the only damage was your lens? (High deductibles make no-fault collision rates ridiculously cheap.)
Because we’re a no fault state and you didn’t do any non-covered property damage (i.e., to something besides a car), you don’t really have a reason to talk to your insurance company if you just have the damage fixed yourself.
I don’t get what you are saying. How is it the other driver’s fault at all? You proceeded into the intersection in front of the other driver.
Now, I understand the conditions were bad, and the cops might usually let someone go without a citation, but as others have said, you are still at fault. It is always your responsiblity to keep your vehicle under control. If conditions make that impossible, then you should not be driving until the condiitions improve.