Okay, I’ll be brief. Last night, due to no fault of my own, I hit a police car with mine. The officer was very nice about the whole thing; it was neither my fault nor his- I was avoiding another car that decided I didn’t exist in my lane. When he gave me the ticket, he told me, “If you take it to court it’ll probably just be thrown out.” I was shaken enough that I didn’t ask what he meant by that. Having never had other than speeding tickets before (and only two of those as-is), I’m not sure exactly how I should approach this when I go to court. What do I tell the judge about what happened that would maximize my chances that the officer’s comment on it being ‘thrown out’ would be correct?
The officer may be following some departmental policy that he MUST cite anyone who hits his vehicle. Based on the fact that he advised you to fight the ticket, there is a fair chance that he will not show up for court, in which case you win. This will mean you have to wait till the end of the court session, as the judges will move cases to the end of the docket hoping missing officers will eventually show up. (I’ve seen it done for defendants too, and both get a scolding from the judge for being late)
If the officer shows up, you may actually be at fault in the letter of the law, but it sounds like there is a mitigating circumstance that will allow the judge to either dismiss the charges or find you not guilty.
If the officer is really on your side, you might not have to say anything beyond pleading not guilty. He may relate the facts in such a way that the judge will enter a motion to dismiss on his/her own initiative.
If you do have to argue your case, don’t waste the judges time. Relate the relivent facts, whithout story telling.
Good: I was traveling westbound on Somename Street, between 4th and 5th
Avenue. (unless this is already on the record from the officer’s testimony, then say, “I was traveling on Somename, per the officer’s tetimony”)
Bad: I was on my way to the dentist, because I was overdue for a cleaning, and since tthe old building was condemed after the fire that was caused by fireworks, my dentist recently moved his office to Somename Street…
Sounds stupid, I know several people that can’t talk any other way.
Tell the judge you were forced out of your lane, and traded one accident for another. State the facts that support this (cite the officers tetimony if possible) If there are facts that suggest the accident you avoided would have been worse than the one you caused, state those facts. (Example: you were going 45 MPH when you were forced onto the shoulder, and were nearly able to stop before hitting the police car)
If there are important (to the outcome) errors in the officer’s testimony, correct those, but don’t quibble about minor stuff, it will probably only annoy the judge. Example: if the officer says the car that forced you over was a Trans Am, and it was actually a Camero…It really doesn’t matter which flavor of the same body style it was.
In almost every M/V accident the “fault” is divided among the parties involved. Based on your brief description of the events, and that you seem to have been cited for speeding, I’d guess that the judge will conclude that you are the primary contributor. While someone may have gotten in front of you, it’s still your responsibility to control your vehicle so as to avoid the unexpected. You might make a case that the other guy did something so unexpected that you had no time to react, but it sounds like your case is pretty weak.
He wasn’t given a ticket for speeding, he just mentioned that prior to this incident, all he’s had are speeding tickets. He’s implying this ticket is of a different sort.
-FrL-
It may also depend on the state. In Washington, your ticket will have three choices. The first is guilty. You put the money in the envelope and that’s it. Second, is guilty with an explanation. Last is not guilty. The last two require a visit to court.
I’ve checked the second box on two separate occasions. The first time, the ticket was dismissed, the other, the fine was reduced to $10, with no points.
Right, right- I’ll clarify, there was no speeding involved in this incident. The ticket is simply an ‘accident’ ticket, and the police officer, in his conversation, seemed to imply that he sort-of ‘had’ to write the ticket for me.
What do I tell the judge about what happened that would maximize my chances that the officer’s comment on it being ‘thrown out’ would be correct?
How about the truth? Just relate the facts and assuming that the cop shows up he should back you up. You said it was not your fault, but that will be up to the judge to decide, not you.
Excellent advice. To add to it, I know that insurance companies are distrustful of overly formal language, and I assume judges are too. Don’t say “the vehicle”, rather say “my car”.
Yes. I was arrested last year for an act of domestic violence (I didn’t do it, if you want to believe that). Anyway, the arresting officers knew my ex was lying, and that the allegation was extremely minor, so they bent the rules a fair bit in my favour. The arrested me at the front door of my home, but allowed me to go and get ready first, then they didn’t bother cuffing me, and then when I asked to sit in the passenger seat rather than the rear bench in the lock-up part of the wagon, they sincerely apologised, and took me to the wagon and showed me that the seat was too full of boxes. I was processed extremely quickly at the police station. In and out. They were formal but polite and I have no bad word to say about their treatment of me. Of course, when it went to court, the police statement contained a large number of errors. Most of these pertained to lying about the lack of professionalism they showed in being nice to me. Times and sequences of events were all wrong, but who was I to argue? I owed the cops one, and instructed my solicitor to not fight that aspect of things. It was a good move in the end, and I got a good result.
Not true. While there are instances where both (or more) of the vehicles involved in the crash are at fault, 95% of the crashes I’ve been to have been the fault of one driver.
Concerning ArrMatey!'s situation, I think we’d need a little bit more information to see if the ticket really could be thrown out. It sounds like you were travelling in the same direction as the Police Officer, just in a different lane, when the other car cut you off. Wouldn’t the Officer have seen you get cut off and realize you weren’t at fault? If he did see that happen, you should not have been cited. In that situation the accident report should show the fault being on the “non-contact” unit. And HE should have been cited.
Many departments have a policy that the at-fault unit SHOULD be cited, if it can’t immediately be determined who is at fault, then no ticket should be written. Let the insurance companies fight it out. Crashes are usually considered civil matters and tickets are issued because they are the result of some traffic violation. In your case, leaving your lane before you could determine you could do so safely.
I have a feeling your ticket won’t be thrown out. The judge may say something like, “well, you should’ve stayed in you lane and hit the other guy.” If not, ask for no points on your license - the city just wants the money anyhow.
A word of advice: You should almost never swerve to avoid an accident. Hit your brakes, but try to stay in your lane if you can unless you are ABSOLUTELY sure it is clear. If it had been a bicyclist in the lane, it could’ve been much worse.
Sorry, for the hijack, but this doesn’t make sense.
You said they were “formal but polite” and then they lied about being so in the report? I’ve heard of people accusing police of lying to make themselves look better, but to make themselves look unprofessional? Thanks.
No, they were technically unprofessional by being too gentle with me. The lies were to hide the lack of professionalism.
Report: "We attended Number x on x Street, and Mr X answered the door. We arrested X, read him his rights, and conveyed him to X Police Station.
Not:
We turned up and had a chat, arrested the guy, but let him wander off to get a jacket, use the toilet first, etc. We didn’t bother cuffing him, and it was all retty casual.
The cops actually were in the position of needing to make themselves appear tougher than they actually were. I know police brutality exists, and cops often report themselves as gentler than the reality, but that wasn’t my experience. They were as friendly as they allowed themselves to be.
I also highly suspect they were very annoyed with the complainant for wasting theiur time. I’m a 127kg guym whatever thgat is in pounds - I’m a very big person. My ex is about 45kg. If I’d punched her in the face, as she claimed, she’d have been at the hospital not the police station. She presented at the police station and the police report stated there were no marks on her, and that I was polite, sober, and cooperative.
The cops waste too much of their time on this sort of stuff.
Interesting. Being kind to people does not equate to unprofessionalism. There is nothing wrong with writing in the report that you were cooperative and calm, with no need for handcuffs. I do it from time-to-time (much depending on the person and circumstances - Very rare for a DV case, though.) If anything they hurt your case. If a person is described as cooperative and calm, does that make them sound like a violent person? However, there is a lot to be said to being nice and congenial during a DV call - it keeps everybody calm in the most unpredictable of all calls.
It’s been cited here and in other threads that if the officer doesn’t show up a ticket will automatically be tossed out. Don’t count on it. I won’t say that it doesn’t happen some places but not everywhere. In my court if the officer’s testimony is needed than they just reschedule the case. Most of the time it won’t be needed because a plea will be entered for a lesser charge.
It doesn’t happen where I work but I do know that some departments have policies that make them write a ticket at every accident. I don’t know anyone under the rank of Sergeant who thinks this is a good idea.
So you hit a police car. Who wrote the ticket, the officer you hit or a different officer who wasn’t involved in the accident?
Why do I think you will be paying a fine? I can’t see being issued a ticket if you weren’t at some fault. (Or the officer didn’t think you were at fault??) Cops are getting smoother, year after year. They are trained to make light of stuff so that you won’t go ballistic and somebody get beat up or killed on the scene. I had a friend that was plain old lying to some cops. His story was just this side of an alien abduction tale, and they were trying to get him to fess up. “The fine for lying to a police officer is only $200, so you might as well…” At the time, it seemed to me that they were doing him a favor, and I was so glad that the issue would be resolved that I almost jumped in and tell him I’d pay it. He stuck with his story, and the cops just left. After it was over, I thot: Why on earth would I offer to pay $200 (that I didn’t have) for anything short of a mail order wife? Had I been hypnotized to think stupid thoughts? Then I realized that it was their job to get away from every encounter safely. And let you and the judge worry about paying fines and misunderstandings. The judge is likely to say: “Then why isn’t it on the report?” And your only line of defense is “The officer made me think he was kind of sorry for writing a ticket.”
btw, What does the ticket say??
hh
Not to do necromancy here, but for those interrested:
I went to court an hour early and waited outside until the time on the ticket. The police officer showed up, and a lawyer talked to him in private, then came to me and said, “Okay, we’re going to drop one charge, then you’ll just have to pay 100 dollars plus court costs.”
I told him the officer had instructed me to come to court and get the whole thing thrown out.
“Really?” Says the lawyer, then goes back to talk to the cop. I see the cop shrug, and hear him say, “Fine with me if it’s fine with you.”
Lawyer goes and talks to the judge, the judge calls me up, says, “Obey all traffic laws and be a safe and courteous driver.” He then hands me my license and calls the next case. I never even had to enter a plea.
Estimated time in court: 10 minutes.
IANAL, but I can think of lots of cases when the fault is not at all divided. I’d be interested in knowing where you got that impression.
ALL of the several accidents I’ve had, with varying degrees of injury, were someone else’s fault. Most were cases where I was stopped at a stop sign or light, and somebody ran into the back of my car. No way was I in any way at fault. The most recent (and I hope my last one) was several years ago when someone came out of a side street that did have a stop sign and zipped right in front of me. My lawyer said that in virtually any accident of this sort the person with the stop sign or red light is almost automatically the at fault party.
Try here-guys on this board are VERY knowledgeable (not that everyone here is an
ignoramus 
):
I have learned the hard way that if you swerve and avoid the accident, it’s likely the fool who would have hit you will get away scot free and you’ll be liable for any damage caused by your swerving.