I don't understand what my traffic ticket means

Also:

I’m wondering how you managed to miss all these statements from the OP, seeing as you quoted the same post earlier?

And she’s not reviving anything. Throughout this thread the only thing she’s tried to do is determine where she stands both in the eyes of the law (her ticket) and her insurance company, which she believes will be easier on her if they think the accident involved circumstances beyond her being totally negligent. I really don’t see how asking if anyone has ever gotten out of a ticket implies that the party does not take responsibility–hey, we all want to save a buck. But I’m sure she’s thankful for the helpful lecture on “responsible driving” that you so kindly provided.

And give what another try? :dubious: As I said, I took the parked car thing to mean something else and I guess only the OP can clarify. Though I sure wouldn’t blame her for not coming back to this thread.

ok - I probably shouldn’t be doing this, but I am going to give this one last try. Really, I have no beef with anyone in this thread and I don’t want it to become a trainwreck. I try to avoid wrecks :slight_smile:
I am going to try to address a few questions, please forgive my crappy quoting abilities.

"Apparently she’s gone. All she really had to do to quiet the jerks was say, “You know, I know it’s my fault. There were mitigating circumstances. Will that help? What can I do to reduce my expenses?”

ok - I really feel like this is what I have been saying all along. I went back and re-read this whole thread after taking a break and I see several instances where I point out my own responsibility here. Yes, I am trying to maybe get my ticket reduced and not have to pay my deductible, but that is not the same thing as saying I have no responsibility. I think maybe people are confusing me trying to get a ticket reduced and getting a deductible waived as denying fault. I don’t see it that way - guilty people get fines reduced all the time. I am just trying to consider how my insurance and a judge might see this. This was probably a bad idea to introduce since no one here is an agent or a judge (unless I missed something in this thread). Thankfully I don’t have to rely on the mercy of those here because I would not stand a chance!

But I have been trying to avoid the whole “who is at fault here” issue, because:

  1. It really does not matter who is at fault in the general sense of the word. It only matters what the judge thinks and what my insurance agent thinks. Both have been known to take many things into consideration besides “did you actually slide down that hill yourself, you and no one else hit the other car” - I said in the OP that I did not dispute that I slid down the hill and hit someone. I don’t see how that is construed as blaming anyone else. I am just trying to gather info about how a judge / insurance agent might interpret my ticket, and what my ticket wording even meant.

  2. I was trying to avoid the thread taking this sidetrack in the first place, which is why I did not start an IMHO thread asking “am I at fault here in this accident?” I honestly hesitated posting this thread in the first place, because I was afraid of this kind of response. Not that people would think I was at fault, but that ‘fault’ would become the primary issue of the thread when I really didn’t care about that. I am not sorry I did though, as this thread has been 90% helpful (and thank you to all those who have given me real answers)

  3. My question in this thread was really to find out what my ticket was for. I got sidetracked from there.

as for this:
“we woke up to find several parked cars clustered at the bottom of the hill - they had slid down overnight.”
“Somehow I doubt that is the case.”

I mean exactly what I said here. Twice in the past 3 winters, there have been instances where parked cars (yes, parked, stopped on the side of the road, on the hill, with parking brakes engaged) have slid down to the bottom of the hill. Once it was my just husband’s truck, once it was my neighbor’s car and another car I didn’t recognize. In hindsight I shouldn’t really have brought that up since it has no bearing on my situation now, and it brought on another sidetrack, I guess I was just trying to point out how crazy this hill really can be.

“What does the fact that it is your own street have to do with it? Are the rules of the road different the closer you are to home?”

You seemed to imply that I could just choose not to drive on my road when conditions were bad enough for me to slide. Just don’t drive until it is safe. I was pointing out that since I live on that road, I cannot just avoid it. It is slippery for most of the winter. Since it does not get plowed regularly, snow quickly packs down on it and when the sun comes out the next day, it softens but does not melt, then freezes again at night, ensuring bad conditions for much of the winter. Being homebound is really not a choice I can make. I am not exaggerating when I say that yes, my neighbors and I really do slide down this hill on a frequent basis. Luckily, it really is infrequent to get other traffic through there so normally nothing happens. Now, I do manage to make it 90% of the time, but it still happens quite a bit over the course of the whole winter when you add it up. So far no one (my neighbors or myself) has managed to come up with a solution to this. Plows can’t keep up when it snows as much as it does here. So people saying “But it was your fault! you shouldn’t be driving at all!” …I don’t know what to say about that. Maybe in a perfect world I wouldn’t, but I don’t see how I can avoid it. Yes, it is my fault when I slide and hit someone…I just don’t know how to do anything other than what I am already doing to prevent it from happening. That is where most of my frustration is coming from. I know it is dangerous to drive on this road, I just don’t know what to do about it.
“It’s not like we’re dealing with one of the real crazies on the board.”
I think this should become my sig. :slight_smile: Thanks

oh, and this:
"did you signal the turn as you were sliding? Could the citation be for failure to signal? " Just plain made me laugh out loud at the idea - next time I slide away I will make sure to turn my signal on. If that ends up being why I got the ticket, I will laugh. :slight_smile:

Hopefully this can be over now. I feel like I got the answers I was looking for to begin with, and don’t need to drag this out further, although if anyone really wants clarification on something I will try.

-Velma, not one of the real crazies.

Doesn’t that just mean you use the chains to get down your hill and then take them off prior to driving on the better cleared areas of the city?

Sure, that’s what most people do when using chains. Nothing like trying to get those chains off on the side of the road, possibly in blowing snow, in the freezing cold, in your work clothes. See it all the time.

Unless that was a joke; if so, disregard

Out of curiosity, what part of Michigan do you live in, Velma? You indicate that you live in “the city” but if you’re in the U.P. “the city” is different than being in, say, Flint or Pontiac.

I ask because so many people from out of state are suggesting chains or studs, and quite honestly I’ve never seen chains or studs used anywhere while in the thumb or southeast Michigan. Never, ever. In the country, having 4x4 vehicles is common, so no surprise there. In the city/suburbs, it’s only a couple of days per year where driving is truly dangerous without a 4x4 (and for uneducated drivers, still dangerous with a 4x4).

Pretty much, my thumb/SE Michigan experience is that we don’t have bad winters. Out west, they get a lot of lake effect snow all year, similar to London, ON and Buffalo, NY.

It’s got to be better than sliding out of control through an intersection surely?

I live in Grand Rapids, land of lake effect snow, in the city itself. I have never ever seen anyone on the roads here using studded tires (not allowed at all) or chains.

I don’t know if any of the previous posters (with the possible exception of DSYoung) has ever represented anyone in traffic court. I have, countless times.

I’d contest this ticket in a heartbeat.

At a minimum I’d call the county prosecutor’s office (or whoever prosecutes traffic offenses in your jurisdiction) and ask them about it.

You would? Are you a lawyer? What should I say, just that it was icy and my street was not cleared?

How do I contact the prosecutor - just look up his number and call him myself and say, hey, I got this ticket, can I do anything? (Sorry if my questions sound obvious…I have never done anything like this before and the idea of going to court intimidates me.)

There is another option on the back of my ticket, “admit responsibility with explanation.” how is this different than claiming not guilty? Is this worth a try or is it better to go to court?

For the record, I finally just found out what my ticket is worth, there was a delay because of the Monday holiday - the fine is $105, Change course to interfere is the official charge, meaning I left my own lane. Plus they added another $50 because there was an accident. 2 points.

The estimate on my car is over $3000!! I guess there was damage to things under the hood that I was not aware of. It doesn’t look like much just looking at the car!

The deductible on my insurance is still ‘pending.’ I guess what I do with the ticket (contest it or not) does not have anything to do with how they decide that. They are waiting for the police report.

I grew up in the UP, and still visit regularly (my parents still live there). I’ve NEVER seen anyone use studded tires or tire chains.

I work in New Jersey, not Michigan so things might be different. Some points that were brought up earlier.

Insurance companies don’t care about tickets. Well, except to raise rates. It doesn’t enter into assigning blame. A lot of times they don’t care much about the report either. Its more of a negotiation between the two companies rather than a scientific reconstruction of the events.

A poorly written ticket or a typo will not automatically get you out of a ticket. A judge can pretty much do what he wants but don’t assume if there is a mistake that it is an automatic pass. (OP isn’t saying this but it was brought up)

In all the jurisdictions I am familiar with you should not call the prosecutor. He will not even have access to your paperwork before the court date. You will probably have the oppurtunity to talk to him before you see a judge to possibly reduce the ticket or to state the circumstances. I’m sure where you live the prosecutor will have plenty of experience with accidents in bad weather.

I realize that the O.P. was finished with this thread, but let me point out one more thing. To really press the issue, if you plead not guilty to the charge, you will be presented with 2 options. Bench trial (Judge), or Jury trial. Choose Bench, it shows that you are not trying to make a big deal out of a small thing. At this point, an actual trial will be scheduled, and the cop has to appear, to present his case. If he dosen’t show, the charge is dismissed. If the cop does show, you’re pretty much guilty. But believe me, I have had more than a few traffic tickets dismissed by requesting a bench trial, and having the cop not show. Good Luck!

There is another option on the back of my ticket, “admit responsibility with explanation.” how is this different than claiming not guilty? Is this worth a try or is it better to go to court?

DON’T do that! That’s the equivalent of saying, "I’m guilty, notify my insurance, put a mark on my driving record, and while you’re at it, remove any chance I may have at recieving “supervision”. That’s how it goes in Illilois, anyway.

O.K., one more post, and then I’ll let it go, ha ha ha. I can’t speak for Michigan, but in Illinois, the only way to get “supervision”, is to plead guilty to a Judge. With supervision, if you stay clean for, say, sixty days, no record of your conviction is reported to your insurance company, and your record stays clean. But pleading guilty is the only way to get it, and it’s kind of a roll of the dice. Just like my previous post about the bench trial, another roll of the dice. That’s how it goes in Illinois, anyway, and again, good luck.
P.S. In Illinois, if you’re found guilty at a bench trial, there is generally NO Court Supervision handed out. You’re guilty, pay your fine, have a nice day, sorry about your insurance rate!

This thread perfectly encapsulates the reasons that I both love and hate the SDMB.

On one side, really helpful and informative posters who come up with the most recondite information in the twinkling of an eye.

On the other, jackals who will seize on some point and mercilessly proceed to rip the poster apart for some perceived flaw.

Good luck, Velma, ignore the jackals.

Do not count on that. It is up to the judge. I know departments that the officers are not allowed to go to court. The charge doesn’t get dismissed. You just have to keep coming back and wasting time until the court is forced to hold a trial and make the officer come in. I know the dismissals happen in some courts but not in mine and certainly not in all.

Thank you Loach - I think here it will get dismissed if the officer does not show up, however, I have been advised that pretty much never happens. I don’t intend to go just to hope that he will not show if that is my only chance, then it is not worth my time.

My ticket does have some mistakes on it - the time of the accident and the make of my car are wrong, however, I wasn’t really planning on bringing it up, like you said. It’s not like there is any question here that it was me - I can’t claim that it was another mystery car that was involved and the cop gave the wrong person the ticket or anything :slight_smile: I figured that would just annoy everyone.

bobo t - I have never heard of anything like “supervision” here in Michigan. We don’t seem to have as many options as other states, like traffic school and such to reduce penalties. You are pretty much stuck with points on your license if you get a ticket unless you go to court and win. It seems pretty common for people to have a few points on their license here as a result.

I really am debating on whether to contest or not. I don’t want to waste everyone’s time in court, I have no defense other than “it was icy” and I have the feeling the officer is going to say “yeah, you mentioned that at the scene, so what?” And then I will have wasted a morning. But then I get someone telling me that they got a judge who just reduced everyone’s fine who showed up and they didn’t even have to talk, or they made a deal with the prosecutor first, and then I think, why not try?

I don’t know. At this point I am most worried about my insurance company and what they find, and how much my rates are going up, and part of me just wants this all behind me and thinks ‘forget it’ about going to court. I guess I will have to decide soon though, I only have until next Weds. to pay or ask for a court date.

aldiboronti - yeah, it’s funny, but when I created this thread I pretty much knew what the varied responses would be. But I wanted the answers anyway, and I knew I would get them.

On the plus side, I get to drive a new Pontiac Vibe for a week as my loaner, and it is a pretty fun car :slight_smile:

Any chance that you can place some of the blame on the city for failure to maintain the road in a safe condition?

I live in Calgary, Canada - we also get bunches of snow and do not have snow removal of any type on side streets so I feel your pain.

Regarding insurance - negotiate with your agent regarding fault - two years ago I had and accident and did exactly that. Result was a waiver of deductable which is good.

Keeping in mind that I’m in Canada so anything I say could have anywhere from 0% - 100% relevance in Michigan, here if a person wants to contest a ticket there’s a certain ‘Appear By’ date. You go down to traffic court, wait in line and then plead your case to the prosecutor. I’ve never known ANYONE who hasn’t had a ticket either reduced (no licence points, for instance) or totally thrown out so it’s probably worth a half day of your time if Michigan has a similar set up.

I am certainly not saying that there are no asshole cops or cops who take their tickets personally. Most of the ones I know don’t take them personally and have no reason to mind if you get the ticket reduced. Usually the prosecutor won’t care if a plea bargain will help clear the docket quicker. Usually a judge won’t care if there were no injuries. But I can’t guarantee it. I doubt the officer will care since you said:

I know departments that require a ticket be written for every accident. Thankfully mine does not. However, some judges have pet peeves. The one I deal with most of the time will only accept a reduction on some tickets and not others and he will hammer you for a cellphone violation. If you were coming to my court I would say it is worth your time to go. In general I think it is a good idea but no guarantees.