It’s 9 pm at night and I’m tired, hungry, and have to go to work. No time for a term paper now.
If I were you I would worry about 2022 and 2024 and you better hope the walkaway movement is fake (I dont think it is) because if the economy tanks and we find ourselves at war it will be a bad time for president Harris.
Have you EVER been right when you fall into these prognosticating incidents? Ever?
One of the things conservatives need to stop doing, if they ever want to be taken seriously again as legitimate political opposition, is clinging to their own personal impressions in preference to documented facts. And they need to stop condescendingly dismissing the importance of documentary evidence with rhetorical tactics like comparing it to writing a “term paper”—the implication being that backing up one’s claims with facts is just a school exercise for library nerds.
You aren’t being expected to write any posts to anybody else’s deadlines, or go hunting for cites when you’re hungry, tired or late for work. But you damn well do need to recognize that an argument about a factual situation like the nature of the #WalkAway “movement” ultimately needs to be founded on facts. If I cite some detailed technical analysis explaining why the #WalkAway presence on social media has the digital fingerprints of astroturfing and bot-generation all over it, you are not rebutting that analysis when you just weakly repeat your unsupported claim that “the walk away movement is real”.
Liberals and Democrats are already worrying plenty about 2022 and 2024. We know that Trumpism and other disasters have already damaged our economy and country in ways that Democrats will be unable to fix in just a few years (and in fact, will end up being blamed for by Trumpist revisionism). We know that there are some divisions in modern liberalism that many liberals and centrists are bothered by, and that Trumpists are hysterically paranoid about. We know that all these things and many more are serious problems confronting the Democratic Party and American liberalism with lots of challenges over the next few years.
We can have meaningful and enlightening discussions about all these things. But not if you and other conservatives continue to cling to the Trumpist playbook of simply refusing to acknowledge facts you don’t like, and demanding that your evidence-free wishful thinking be treated as a serious argument.
Millions more Americans voted for Democrats than ever before. If there is a walk away movement, it’s utterly insignificant and dwarfed by all the movement towards the Democratic party.
You said yourself it’s nothing but Fox news scaremongering, and the media exaggerates every incident.
This hasn’t come up in this thread yet, but see this comment from another where I tried to talk about immigration:
I thought it might be useful to post in this thread because I have changed my mind recently. Not to the point where I’d consider voting for Trump, but I now have serious reservations about where the left is going. To some extent I’m viewing things from a different perspective to how I used to, and it makes a big difference.
How would you react to someone saying black people in inner cities don’t want to do the work of educating themselves or their children to do something better, they’re just looking for a handout? Yet it’s perfectly acceptable to say it about the oil workers? There’s a definite double standard operating, where some groups are acceptable targets for criticism, even very harsh criticism, and others are not.
Why are you judging the left based on the words of random internet strangers rather than the leaders of the Democratic party?
I said ‘if you look at what liberals are saying’, not if you look at what the leaders of the Democratic party are saying. Maybe K9bfriender assumed I meant the latter, though.
Some liberals. And I think you’re misinterpreting most of those liberals anyway, along with giving pretty much infinite benefit of the doubt to likely racists, xenophobes, and other bigots.
Were you surprised by the election result? I wasn’t. I remember a few years ago people saying the Republican party would soon be unelectable due to the changing demographics of the US. Anyone still believe that? If your predictions aren’t matching up with reality then maybe you need to reconsider your model. When Trump wins one third of the Latino vote, it might be time to abandon the idea that racism is the only thing motivating people to vote for him.
Because I did not say that. It was given, as a reason, by them, as to why they voted for Trump.
A poor person living in a city will vote for Democrats because they want to be able to give a better life to their children.
According to what they have said, the oil workers vote for Republicans because they want their children to have the same lives as they do.
Your dichotomy is false, it is misinformed, and it is actually pretty offensive.
Do you judge the Republican party by “what conservatives are saying?”
Or is that only a standard you hold for Democrats?
I do hope that this election is the death knell for the “demographics is destiny” mantra that too many Democrats have clung to for years. Here in Texas, state Democrats have been talking for at least 20 years about how a burgeoning younger and more diverse population is going to push the state into the D column. The expected date for this to happen is always two to four years in the future.
Well, it turns out that these demographic groups you’re sitting back and waiting to rise up and carry you to victory can change how they vote. You gotta work for their vote, every election. And if you don’t, Republicans will.
You are right. There was the assumption, given people like Derek Black, that racists wouldn’t be able to pass their racism down to their children.
That theory has now been invalidated.
Well, no.
I’m on the record of expecting Texas to remain red for a decade at least for the simple reason that while Republicans are lousy to Hispanics in Texas, they were not stupid to let racists like Joe Arpaio alienating even Hispanics that were born in the USA.
But in Arizona they did indeed make it a dual thing, besides a draconian law, having an executive that also was draconian does lead to the state into dismissing the racist executive and then making the state Bluer than ever. I actually based my “destiny” expectation on how anti immigration laws appeared in California, laws that did give victory to Republicans at the beginning, like we see in Texas now …
Until California’s Hispanics figured out in about a generation that they could also vote and most of the rest in California also realized that Hispanics are also Americans and Republicans were/are poison.
Not really. Disappointed at first, but that was because of the pace of vote counting, and how the counts looked early. But now it’s pretty clear that this was a decisive Biden win. Not a landslide like I hoped, but still a solid win, rather than a bare squeaker. Multiple states with more than a tiny margin, and a pretty large popular vote lead – similar to Obama’s 2nd win, but not as big as his first.
The Senate is still in reach, even if it will be tough. We kept the House. This was a good, but not great, result for the Democrats. If we don’t pick up the Senate it will be merely decent. If we do get the Senate, it will be very good.
But no. I didn’t make any confident predictions, and my mind was open for a variety of possible outcomes. This was well within the broad scope of what I expected.
Who cares what some random people say? I haven’t said this, at least not recently (I might have briefly thought so in 2008/2009, but certainly not since then).
We don’t know if Trump won 1/3rd of the Latino vote. Exit polls are much less reliable when so much of the voting is by mail. And I’ve never said that racism is the only thing motivating Trump voters – I’ve said that, according to the data, it (along with xenophobia, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, misogyny, and similar bigotries) is the most significant motivator. And I stand by that.
This election has taught me something, though – that the country is more divided than I thought. The one thing I didn’t expect was that Trump would get millions more votes than he did in '16. But despite record Republican turnout, Biden still won, and won decisively. So my hope that Trumpism would be resoundingly rejected by a large majority of the country is unfulfilled. But my resolve to continue to fight racism and bigotry is as strong as ever. What else could I do? What do you suggest I do? Most of what you seem to be saying appears to be responding to various right-wing bogeymen rather than assertions by liberal Dopers like me.
I make a point of following black conservatives (particularly black conservative women) on Twitter and more than a couple of them have said they were voting for Trump because they were sick of white liberals calling them coons and Uncle Toms. I don’t know if they were being serious or just venting their frustration, but it’d be a little naive to think such bigotry played no role whatsoever.
I could see that.
OTOH, as a white liberal, I’ve never heard that.
Did they say what white liberals were calling them such names? Did they say where they heard that allegation?
Nah they just said white people.
Who are these conservative black women?
Just regular people.
Can I get a link to their Twitter? (which you have now edited out of your post 
)