I get it. It doesn't matter if Saddam had WMD's

What matters is that he had the labs that could have produced WMD’s and that programs might have been in place to produce WMD’s in the future. Is there a country in the world that doesn’t have labs that could make WMD’s?


Hey look at me!!! I talk about sadaams bombs.

That makes me different

That might be what matters to some, but it’s certainly not what America was told was the situation.

Well, I for one am glad we got rid of that fuckbag and his gang of genocidal maniacs, and I hope that we will be able to create a viable and prosperous democracy in the middle of Fundyville.

But I will never forgive this administration for the deception perpetrated on the world as a justification for going to war. I don’t believe it was an intelligence failure, I believe it was a lie. And worse, it’s not as if there weren’t other, good reasons for justifying the war. But instead of being noble and using those, they went with the one they knew was not true because they thought it would garner the most support.

Fucking wankers.

The article that you linked to, Pepsi Classic, is so stupid that it borders on satire. I realize that its author didn’t intend it as such - it was supposed to be propaganda. But still.

It begins:

So far so good. The author then alleges that the Iraqis were also producing ricin, and falsely claims that Kay had evidence that Iraq was working on weaponizing ricin.

He goes on to say:

Which is also true. The waste left over from castor beans after the oil is extracted contains something like 5-10% of the poisonous protein ricin. He claims that the tiniest quantity of this can kill you. Yet, somehow, castor beans are grown all over the world, and millions of people don’t die from the effects of it. In fact, it seems that an extraordinarily small number of people have ever died from ricin poisoning.

This is code for “I’m making stuff up as I go along”.

And I could probably store enough water in a bucket to kill every person in the United States, provided that they all agreed to stick their heads in it for a few minutes, one person at a time.

Geez! Ted Rall is proving to be quite handy for Pit threads this week!

Good stuff, Desmo.

This idiot also assumes that because there was ricin in the Senate and the guy in London had ricin, they must be connected. Because only one or two people in the world could possibly have this relatively easy-to-make poison. How this relates to Saddam is beyond me. We’ve had no indication so far that this ricin-laced envelope has anything to do with foreign terrorists. Maybe the anthrax guy from a few years ago got bored.

Ricin is very deadly even in tiny doses, but it’s apparently a bad choice as a mass-murder weapon if your delivery system is the mail. It doesn’t spread from person to person. In theory, you could mail it to one person and probably kill them, but it’d be even less effective than anthrax (which is infectious but not very contagious).

Wouldn’t it be funny if this guy never gets caught either? :sigh:…

There’s no evidence that ricin is deadly in tiny doses. There’s plenty of data about its toxicity if the stuff is ingested. That requires a dose of a gram or so. If it was sent to you in the post and you were in the habit of eating your mail, I suppose it could get you. If you were in the habit of dissolving strange white powder that you received in the mail and injecting it, I guess it’s possible that the fatal dose could be lower. But I’ve not been able to find any good data to support that.

The “most poisonous stuff known to man” hype comes from the spies, not from the real world.


Kay already said the info the US was going on was given by former WMD scientists in Iraq.

Soooo, either the US lied or the Iraqi’s lied.

  1. The US lied and wanted to take out Saddam no matter what. (What a shame he isn’t raping and killing anymore)

  2. The UN, France, Germany, and Russia all beleived these scientists and insisted on inspections, and after over a decade of searching, and not seeing Hussein dismantle what he said he had, we just trust him because he’s a nice guy.

Where is the evidence Hitler was going to invade the US?!?

This is the question I want answered. Is it too late to protest the hundreds of thousands of US soldiers killed keeping Europe free from oppression? And the millions spent rebuilding all the countries?

Oh, wait, we’re not supposed to bring that up. Never mind

The linking of issues relating WWII, Hitler and Saddam Hussain is what is called a strawman.

Any case regarding Saddam Hussain and the politics regarding wether or how he should have been dealt with are matters that must stand purely on their own merits.

I would also add that your vague link between the two is even more irrelevant since Hitler declared war on the US, so the US had no need to make any decision as to wether to go to war or what threat he posed.

And the billions being spent on rebuilding Iraq is going to US companies so somone is doing very nicely out of it.

Perhaps I shouldn’t have brought up facts though - nevermind

Not sure if I should call bullshit or cite. Studying, ongoing, WWII for 15 years and haven’t seen this. Please tell me where I can find this documentation. I’d appreciate it.

I know about the obvious (hits on US and Brazilian Cruise Liners) but I’d like to know where Hitler actually declared war on the US before we declared war on the Axis powers.

For crying out loud, duffer, can you really possibly be as ignorant as it seems from the utter bullshit you’ve been spewing all over the pit this morning?

From this page , which was a random choice from my google results:

Anybody with even a passing knowledge of the history of WWII knows that Germany and Italy, in keeping with their treaty obligations with Japan, declared war on the U.S. after the U.S. declared war on Japan, and knows that without needing a cite. Anybody that’s not ignorant, anyway.

Jeeze, what a pile of hooey. Where to start?

Well point 1. No-one is suggesting that Saddam wasn’t a piece of scum, but that doesn’t mean the US is allowed to wade in and play world-cop without any other authority. It’s no different to the same reasons you aren’t allowed to drive across town and shoot your nearest drug-pusher, just because they deserve it.

Point 2. Same old crap. Somehow Saddam had to prove he didn’t have something he didn’t have. What is we usually say about proving negatives around here?

And then, oh dear, Herr Hitler, showing his face again. Quite what he has to do with anything I can’t imagine. Nor have the actions of the US during their (eventual) involvement in WWII got anything to do the supposedly preemptive war against Iraq. Germany was already actively conducting war against neighbouring countries and it simply was not a possibility to conduct a war against Japan (who did pose a direct danger to the USA, it’s generally agreed) while ignoring the conflict in Europe and Africa.

And the money spent in Iraq is quite different from the aid programs after WWII. You can be absolutely 100% that every penny spent by the US companies in Iraq is done in the expectation of plenty, plenty profits in the future. Neither they or the US govt. are doing this out of charity. So you can get of your moral high-horse, it appears to be a knackered old ass.

Excuse me while I gaze admiringly, nay, ardently at Futile Gesture


So swift, so to the point, so right. I salute you, sir.

So, Hitler declared war on us? OK, glad that’s still settled.

Still, in the long run, I’ll take being on the side that was for knocking off Saddam for the right reasons. I would not like to bet significant money on no Iraqi created, or WMDs that originated from Iraqi programs showing up in the future. Lucky for me, I thought the “stockpiles” argument was the WORST argument for going to war – which, of course, is why GWB seemed to put many eggs in that basket.

If you read his actual speeches before the war, the claims that people claim he claimed, he never claimed. OTOH, he was still way off. Maybe I’m a flinty, cynical realist crossed by a mad scientist with a wild-eyed idealist, but, I’m glad Saddam is gone, and I’m not disappointed that he wasn’t armed to the teeth with ICBMs or nerve gas.

The real Axis of Evil (excluding UNSC members) probably should have included: China, Pakistan, North Korea, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya and whoever else now has the means to make a bomb. Anyone watch the news?

Funny, I can’t help but think that threads like this are going to make Enrico Fermi’s ghost start throwing books at us.


You do no credit to the pro-Iraq war crowd with your ignorant uniformed statements.

You are also too lazy to do a simple search in order to refure a point with which you disagree.

Lazy and stupid - and you are part of the pro-war crowd.

Methinks folk like Beagle would be glad if you simply made less ill-informed comment, and leave it to those pro-war folk who are better informed.

I personally am also glad that Saddam Hussain is gone, however this does not mean I was in favour of the manner in which he was removed from power, but then, I was not in favour of the way the US (among many others) helped put him in power and keep him there.

Thus, one can be anti war, and anti Saddam.

You people on this board really chap my ass. Sure, I actually marched against the war, sure I had a problem with Bush invading a soverign nation that had not attacked the U.S. And then I got really mad when no WMD were found and in my mind there was proof that Bush had misled, if not downright lied to the American public about the threat that Iraq posed (As opposed to lying about sex).

But, the more I read and heard the more I realized what Bush was getting at:

Saddam wanted to have WMD! Hey, dispute that if you can. I think not.

I would argue with you, dude, but it’s kind of hard to focus while carrying a huge neon sign spelling out “G-O-D-W-I-N.”

So did every other maniacal despot ruling a small country and massacring the citizenry.

county - I’m probably misunderstanding you, so please accept my appologies beforehand, but are you saying that you marched against the war but are now OK with it because … Saddam wanted WMD?

I hate to bring this to you but a lot of countries want WMD and some are actively trying to make some. Have fun invading the rest of the middle- and far-east - who do you think you’ll start with? Iran? North-Korea? Pakistan? Hell, I wouldn’t mind having some WMD’s myself (so who’s the loser now, BITCH?!?) - should I be worried about being invaded?

Sorry about chapping you ass, friend, but these are ass-chapping times.