I had psychadelic experience that changed my relationship to food.

I wasn’t quite sure where to make this post. None of the other forums seemed appropriate, so I’m defaulting to MPSIMS. But I don’t normally read or post here, so I don’t really know people or the culture. But I wanted to think this one through and discuss it, so here I am.

I have had very little drug use in my life. I’ll occasionally have a few drinks, and that’s about it. I started vaping weed about 8 months ago. There were various reasons I didn’t try it until then, but that’s outside the scope of what I want to say. It wasn’t heavy use - a few times a week I’d have a modest amount of it 2 or 3 hours before bedtime, get a little goofy, enjoy watching TV and music more, and fall asleep easier. Once or twice a week with I’d get goofy high with my girlfriend and watch funny TV shows or movies.

Last week I was having a particularly bad day. Now, in general, I don’t respond to bad days by trying to medicate myself with drugs. I know that’s a dangerous path to go down.

But I decided what the hell, and ate about twice as much weed edibles than I’ve ever tried before, and vaped a bunch on top of that. Well - not edibles exactly, what they’d call AVB - already vaped bud. You run cannabis flower through a dry herb vaporizer, so that the hot air vaporizes the THC right off the flower. But there’s still plant material left behind after you’re done. That plant material has THC inside of it - since it wasn’t on the surface, it didn’t get vaporized by the hot air. But it does get cooked by the hot air, and decarboxylated, which means it’s activated into a biologically usable form, similar to edibles. And then you just eat it. Mix it in a toasted PBJ - the texture of the toasted bread and peanut butter hide it effectively, and the peanut butter gives it a fat to bind to in order to be taken into your system. It’s nice, it’s a “free” edible out of material that would normally go to waste by combustion.

Now, as I said, I think taking drugs to handle a bad day is generally a bad idea, but I was having a really bad day, and I figure weed is fairly innocuous and not as dangerous as alcohol, so I just went ahead with it. I figured I’d just become dumb and goofy, watch some family guy, and fall asleep.

You’ve all probably heard or read a story that someone has told about how they took psilocybin mushrooms or LSD and had a “trip” that changed the way their consciousness works, and how they look at their lives and the world. There are often common themes, often people will say that they felt a great connection between all things and some hidden love or beauty that permeates all things, something like that. I didn’t think weed could produce effects like that. But apparently it can in the right doses (and maybe the right strain and the right ingestion method), because I had one of those grand psychedelic experiences for the first time.

People who’ve used psychadelics will often caution you against bad trips. Go into it with the right attitude, have someone experienced and supportive with you, etc. I had none of that. I was in a very bad place that day, and I had no support with me. I had no idea that I would, or could, have this experience from cannabis.

I had an awful, terrifying experience that lasted 8+ hours before I could get to sleep. It actually lasted a lot longer than that - I slept for 12 straight hours and was still a little high for a few hours after that. Almost everything about it was deeply unsettling and very unpleasant. One of the worst experiences I’ve ever had in my life. That’s a different story.

However, the experience seemed to flip some switches or rewire my brain to some degree, and a lot of the effects that came 24-48 hours after the trip were positive. There are a lot of realizations I had about my life and the nature of reality and all that stuff, but that’s hard to explain and it’s hard to tell how much of that was true insight, discovering true things because your state of mind let you see things from a perspective you’ve never seen before, and how much was just the drug-induced illusion of insight, where the thing you think you understood isn’t real. I’m not going to go into all that stuff in this post, I’m still working through it. But what I feel like I can confidently share is the most concrete of the changes I’ve experienced - I psychologically and physiologically react differently to food.

I’ve been fat most of my life, from when I was a kid. There were a few periods where I lost a lot of weight, but it came from a lot of effort, constant struggle, denial, and just being uncomfortable most of the time. The main issue was not that I got excited or happy from eating, and therefore ate as much as I could - the issue was more that hunger is an extremely intense feeling for me. It’'s an itch that would come up frequently, and it would be so intense that I would have a very difficult time stopping myself from scratching it by eating. I would be intensely uncomfortable if I ignored the feeling of hunger.

The intensity of hunger was also such that I tended to eat very quickly. I often eat a whole meal twice as fast as the person I’m eating with. This probably compounded the problem, because it didn’t give my body the time to process the incoming food and give me a feeling of satiety, so I would eat more during that window between eating and feeling satisfied/hunger disappearing. I recognize this, and yet it was still very difficult to slow down my eating when I was hungry, even though it seems so simple.

So what happened after the psychedelic experience? Hunger doesn’t bother me that much. That’s all it took. Instantly my caloric intake is down by about a third, maybe more. I didn’t anticipate this experience, so I didn’t document the before/after calorie intake, I’m just estimating.

I can feel that I’m hungry, and that my body could use some food, but it’s a much more distant thought. It doesn’t have the urgency to it. I’m not deeply uncomfortable when I begin to feel hunger. And so I eat less frequently. And because the intensity of hunger isn’t there, I eat much more slowly too. Meals often take me 2-3x as long to eat as they used to. I’ll take a bite, relax, watch some TV, check something on my phone, talk to the person I’m eating with, whatever, then go back to take another bite. This is completely different from the way I’ve always eaten food previous to this, with much more ravenous hunger.

And in fact, the incentive around foods changed around slightly in the other direction. The other day I had some pizza (I’m not eating any better, just less) - four pieces. Normally if I was hungry I could easily it 5 or 6, but this time I stuck with 4, and a while after that my stomach started to feel a bit off. I actually felt a bit bloated and uncomfortable as though I ate too much - sort of how you feel after overindulging at a buffet, except that I didn’t get the stomach-stretching feeling because that wasn’t a large amount of food compared to my norm. I actually felt bad about eating too much after eating less than I’d normally eat.

I see a psychotherapist whose specialty is addiction treatment. That’s just a coincidence - I didn’t see her for that expertise, she just happened to be the person that was available when I was referred for treatment. But of course she’s a general therapist too - that’s just her specialty - so I did normal psychotherapy stuff with her. I stopped seeing her about a year ago, when she switched jobs unexpectedly and I didn’t make the effort to keep up with her because I don’t think psychotherapy was doing me much good at the time, so it felt like I was wasting her time anyway.

But I looked her up again after this experience. I brought these experiences to her. She has been really cool about it and excited at what appears to be the chance for me to establish new perspectives and habits and change my life for the better.

She had once told me that she didn’t think that light weed usage would become a problem for me because I didn’t have the sort of personality traits and brain responses that she’d seen in problem drug users, but she added in an offhand way that I may have an addiction to food. I sort of brushed it off at the time as not seeming like a real thing, or not that important, but I remembered it. We didn’t go deeply into the idea.

So I explained everything that happened last week, during and after the trip, at least the stuff I was comfortable telling her about. I reminded her about the time that she sort of offhandedly mentioned that I may have a food addiction. And I asked her if people who had these psychedelic experiences could have addictions lessened or erased.

And she said that yes, it definitely did happen sometimes. It wasn’t reliable, everyone responds to psychedelic experiences differently, and that we’re only beginning to really study it, but that it was definitely within the range of normal reactions that addictions could change or go away as a result of that experience.

Now this isn’t what she told me exactly, I’m putting my own interpretation on some of what she told me. So I’m not relaying raw medical advice. Physiologically, addictions can be complex. It’s easy to explain how heroin makes you an addict, but people can become addicted to all sorts of things that you wouldn’t normally think of as addictive. The brain reward pathways can respond to a variety of things that can vary from person to person, and the brain can physiologically rewire itself in a way that you don’t even consciously perceive, but that mirrors the way the brain responds to what we think of as typically addictive things (nicotine, opioids, etc.) to non-drug activities.

So it would indeed appear that I may have had an addiction to food that I wasn’t aware of. The intensity of the feeling of hunger I experienced wasn’t that different from the urge to smoke is to a nicotine addict that has gone all day without a cigarette.

I didn’t even think addiction to food was a possibility. Our society has a stigma against drug addiction (often treating it as a failure of character rather than a physiological condition of the brain that affects us on a deeper level than what we can consciously perceive), a stigma against being fat, and a stigma against “making excuses” for being fat. There’s no thought given in the public consciousness that people can have a different relationship with food, with different incentives and difficulties. It’s always assumed that we all have the same relationship with food, fat people are just gluttonous and irresponsible and lazy and lack willpower. Character flaws are the only thing that make them fat.

Let me make an analogy. I used to think this way about alcoholics, the way society generally thinks about fat people who “make excuses”. I would think - it would be relatively easy for me never to drink again. I’d prefer not to do that, because I enjoy a drink now and then, but I could definitely do that without using a huge amount of willpower or effort. So I’d look at alcoholics and say “what the fuck is wrong with you? Just stop drinking. It’s simple. It’s not that hard”

But as I got older and matured and understood more about the brain, and developed more empathy for people with addictions, I realized that it’s not that simple. Quitting alcohol is relatively easy for me because I’m not an alcoholic. My brain hasn’t rewired itself to be deeply uncomfortable without alcohol, and to give me the constant urge to drink. So obviously I would have an easier time quitting than someone whose brain made it an almost impossible struggle for them. My journey is in quitting alcohol would only be 1 percent as hard as theirs.

Lacking that understanding and that empathy, I made a poor and simplistic judgement that these people were simply weak and their characters were flawed. Just as everyone has always assumed that because I was fat, it must be only due to character flaws. After all, they have to eat too, and they aren’t fat, so why couldn’t I do the same? It had to be a personal failure that made me less than them.

Addiction to food is actually even trickier. The best way to quit abusing alcohol is to go cold turkey. It takes a lot of willpower, but it’s a very simple solution: just stop. Find a way to find the strength or the support systems to quit drinking, work at it, and you’ll start to get better. It’s hard, and there’s a danger of relapse, but if you could maintain the will to go cold turkey, you solved the problem.

Food, on the other hand, is not something that you can stop cold turkey. You have to eat, several times a day, and yet not succumb to the incentives your brain gives you to get out of control with it. Imagine if you were an alcoholic that had to drink 3 beers a day, but only 3 beers. How much harder would it be to stop abusing alcohol when the thing your brain has a problematic relationship with is a necessary part of your daily life?

I think this is a big part of the reason that something like IIRC 97%+ of the people who lose a significant amount of weight will gain it back in a few years. They can muster up enough energy to force themselves to fight the incentives their brain has given them even though it’s tremendously difficult. But they manage it, through force of will and good habits, for a while. Enough to lose a lot of weight. But you’re constantly subjected to the substance you’re addicted to, and eventually that willpower to ignore how your brain responds to it begins to waver, and you go back to indulging that addiction because it’s too hard to keep fighting it all your life.

That isn’t to say that there aren’t people who have conquered it. There are absolutely people whose brain makes it difficult for them to stay at a healthy weight, and through effort and force of will and self denial, they manage to stay at a low weight despite their brain incentives lining up otherwise. I admire these people, I’m not trying to downplay the work they put into that.

But we know that food manufacturers hire people - chemists, medical researchers, etc. to deliberately make their foods more addictive. They try to find just the right mix of fat and sugar and salt and whatever else to trigger the reward center of the brain. To make food as much like an addictive drug as they can. I think the rise in obesity is a multi-pronged problem, but I believe that the deliberate addictification of food - which is a word I’m pretty sure I just made up - is a big component in it.

If this change in my brain is permanent, and my relationship with food is different now, and it doesn’t wear off, I will lose weight long term, even without any deliberate effort on my part. My calorie intake is low enough “naturally” now that I’ll start trending downwards. It won’t be because I fixed a character flaw that made me fat, or because I’m trying harder now than I was before, or anything like that. It will simply be because my brain, in some way, adapted or rewired itself to break the addictive cycle with food. I won’t have overcome a great struggle, but rather, the struggle just vanished for me as a result of a unique, mind-altering experience.

Which means that if my brain were like this my whole life, I wouldn’t have ever become fat. And I wouldn’t have been treated like shit by everyone. At one point in my life, I had actually become pretty fit, so I know the difference in the way that people treat you. When you go from very fat to fit, people treat you like a real person with value and feelings, and not just an emotional punching bag that they can abuse with no guilt at all because they think you deserve your fate because fatness is caused by weakness of character anyway. That you were a bad person for being fat and deserved the abuse and hatred you receive for it.

I don’t have any specific purpose in sharing this. I’m not saying that you should have your own psychedelic experiences to change your brain, although I’m not not saying that either. There’s no way to know what having that experience will lead to. Yours may be totally different from mine.

I guess there is one piece of advice people would take from this. I’ve become far more empathetic over the years towards people with addictions than I used to be, understanding that a struggle to control some aspect of their lives is not necessarily rooted in a character flaw or a moral failing. It doesn’t automatically make them a bad person.

As someone who has had a lifetime of depression and self esteem issues and social isolation because of what appears to be an addictive relationship with food, I would ask that along with other types of addictions, that people could try to be more empathetic and less judgemental towards people who are failing a struggle with an issue that the people doing the judging aren’t struggling with. Your assumption that everyone has the same incentives and difficulties, and therefore you’re automatically better than someone who is struggling with something that you don’t struggle with, is wrong.

Our brains are complex, and the reason we do things and respond to things are often not even something that we can consciously recognize and control. Everyone has their own struggle. The lack of empathy and the rush to judgement makes the world a worse place. Recognizing that everyone has different struggles leads to more empathy and kindness. And you should be the change you want to see in the world, you should try to take small steps towards making the world a better place.

Congratulations. Hope this works longterm and you’ll be much healthier nutrition/body wise. Having never done drugs of this sort, though, I wonder if it’s a crapshoot as to whether you will have positive insight about life or not. Could someone go on a trip and just develop terrible insight or inspiration instead?

Neat. I wish I could recreate your experience. I don’t drink, I don’t smoke, I don’t do drugs but I am 100% convinced that I have a food addiction.

As this happened just last week, might it prove a titch early to claim a long term, life altering, shift of consciousness ?

It’s not unheard of for people to have a wild trip and announce a life changing epiphany, only to have it evaporate over time.

I’d advocate for a little more ‘wait and see’, myself.

(Should your story go viral perhaps others will want to try it. Is that what you were hoping? )

Longest post I’ve ever read, I think. Also one of the most interesting. (And, FWIW, beautifully written.)

Hope this sticks and serves you well.

j

That’s great to hear! I also agree that many people have something like an addiction to food. When people say they struggle to give up something like soda, it seems very much like an addictive reaction.

One thing you might want to consider is transitioning to more healthy foods. As you’ve mentioned, food corporations put a lot of research into making their foods as desirable as possible. Now that you’re starting to see food differently, try switching your diet to foods that are less influenced by corporations. Eating foods that are more basic and natural can help ensure that your brain won’t turn to them for the high reward benefit like it might for highly processed foods filled with fat and sugar.

The same thing happens when people try new diets or exercise programs. They often announce they have changed their relationship with food forever, and 8 (or 20, or 52) weeks later they are back where they started. The only way to recognize this change is in retrospect.

Ditto that.

Early in your post, **SenorBeef ** (ironic name now, eh?), you said, “One of the worst experiences I’ve ever had in my life. That’s a different story.”

When you get in the mood, I’d like to hear more about that.

I’m going to respond to the last part of this post first, and go back and answer the other stuff later.

No, I have no agenda in writing this. My main purpose is actually to think this through, process, and assimilate this information for myself. Sounding it out for myself, and throwing it out there for feedback and discussion.

Like I said, I didn’t go into it, but there was a lot of change other than the food thing, the food thing was just the most concrete and easy to explain of the changes. I’m doing a lot of thinking about all of the changes. I’m keeping a little notebook with me wherever I go, and writing down thoughts as the inspiration hits me. I contacted my previous therapist because I want to bounce ideas off of her and use her judgement and expertise to help me work through this, too. I’m trying to approach this change from multiple directions in the hopes that I can best understand it and turn it into a positive thing.

I’ve been thinking at high speed again, like I did 10+ years ago. I’ve been dealing with really bad depression almost all of my life, and it has just been worse and worse in recent times. I felt cognitive decline - I thought my brain had aged 30 or 40 years in the last 10 years. My memory was declining, I wasn’t as observant/vigilant as I used to be, and just in general I wasn’t as sharp, and I didn’t think as quickly as I used to when I was younger. I actually discussed with my doctor whether I should be tested for early onset alzheimers or other physiological reasons for mental decline because I felt like something was really wrong there. But now I think almost all of that decline was due to the depression worsening, rather than my brain actually aging/declining. Because I feel like it has snapped back almost fully.

I get excited by thinking again. My enthusiasm for learning went way back up. I go through periods where I feel like my brain working in overdrive because I’m just exploding in thoughts, that my brain is malleable again. I can reshape it, learn new habits, improve the way I approach life.

I’m definitely at this point not advocating for other people to try this, because I only have my one experience to work with. It’s something we need to genuinely study using science. But I’m certainly not saying that they shouldn’t. Especially if someone is in a bad place mentally - at that point, rolling the dice by changing how your brain works is likely to produce a positive result just by chance, because most of the range of how your experience life is more positive than where you’re at now. If your brain isn’t serving your life now, take a chance on getting a new one :slight_smile: Or … maybe a refurbishment. I’m still me, but newer and shinier. Maybe with a few new parts/perspectives to change things up.

What I do know is that we’re self-defeatingly puritanical as a society. We would turn our noses up at solutions to problems if we view them as the easy route, or the “cheating” way. So we’ve been unreceptive to the idea that drugs can help you grow or change as a person. And most of the time that’s correct - a lot of drug use is almost always bad. Heavy opioid use is almost always bad, meth use is almost always bad. I say “almost” because while it seems like it’s all bad, maybe there are exceptions I’m not aware of.

But psychedelics are different to those. They’re generally not addictive, they generally (as far as I’ve heard/read) do not send you into a downward spiral of increasing abuse and dependence the way other heavy drugs do. They just change you, and your perspective, and inspire and allow you to think in ways that you couldn’t before.

There may very well be medicinal use to these changes. Only very recently have we even begun seriously considering the issue. We’ve had fringe scientists looking into the effect of psychedelics since the 1960s, but the medical community as a whole did not appear to be studying these things seriously until recently. And I think that’s mostly because we had a puritanical stick up our ass that said “drugs (the dirty hippy kind) are bad, always. And even when they’re not, and they change your life for the better, it’s cheating and they’re still bad and we’re not going to study this because we’d be uncomfortable if it turned out that they could be a good thing. Our simplistic worldview would be damaged”

To give another example, I’ve been trying to understand for years why we’re not studying using low doses of anabolic steroids to increase people’s fitness. When you ask people why we aren’t studying this, they’ll say “well, you see this guy who took way, way too much steroids? now he has tits and his balls fell off. Steroids are bad. End of story”

I haven’t been able to find research as to whether lower doses could actually be beneficial. When I’ve asked on this board and reddit why there isn’t more research into it as a potential health treatment, no one has ever given me a very good answer. It seems like “drugs are bad, mmkay” is the reason that we’re not even trying to understand if there are positive applications for them.

Or, a third example. When I was 17-18, I was way overweight. Like 380 pounds. I’ve told this story on the boards before, but I’ll just give the part that’s relevant to what I’m trying to say. I told my doctor that I’d read about low carbing (atkins, keto, etc) and wanted to give it a shot, just dive fully in it with determination and see what happens. She told me it was a bad idea, and while she liked that I was willing to try to improve my health, and obviously the exercise is something she wanted me to do, that eating in that style was going to harm my health. So she ran a whole panel of tests before I gave it a shot to get a baseline. She was going to prove me wrong and herself right.

I got down to 200 pounds within a year. Not only had I lost the 180 pounds of fat, but I was working out like a mad man every day, doing a lot of weight training… every kind of training, really. So I had built up a substantial amount of lean muscle mass, too, offsetting some of that weight loss. So the actual fat loss was easily 200+ pounds.

So I went back to my doctor. She ran all the tests she wanted to again. And she said well, I was wrong. You improved on every single test I ran. I can’t find any way in which you declined or were harmed. But… she still treated me almost suspiciously. Like her in her worldview, it was important that this was bad in some way, because this was just too easy.

And I got similar reactions from other people. Obviously most people who knew me were impressed and congratulated me, but a few would say “yeah, but now I’m sure your heart is damaged” or “you didn’t REALLY improve your health, something we’re not seeing must be worse” - they wanted to undermine any success I’d seen and remind me that I cheated somehow, that I’d get my comeuppance.

Why did these people feel the need to shut me down and shit on my accomplishment? I detected a theme among what they were saying. It had been too easy for me, too quick. I should’ve been punished harder, and longer, for being fat. That by being able to go from morbidly obese to fit in a year was unfair, that I hadn’t struggled enough, or put in the effort enough, and so what I did was bad, even if there were no actual health consequences for it and it was objectively 100% good.

I believe that this is the same sort of puritanically inspired idea that it’s inherently wrong or harmful for big life changes to come “too easy” - you should be punished more for your flaws, you should suffer more, and by losing this so fast, you cheated. It has to be the most painful thing that you can barely withstand or you did it wrong. You got off too easy.

Now - let me tell you, while it did come fast, it did not come easy. I had a strict adherence to a diet without one little tiny scrap of cheating for a year. I had worked out every single day until the point of exhaustion. I absolutely put in the work. I put in so much work that I crammed what might normally be years into work into a shorter period. I attacked it with an extreme amount of effort. But even if I told these people that, they’d still treat me suspiciously, like I got away with something, like I cheated, and they wanted me to understand their disapproval. I’m not talking about 2 or 3 people here. Dozens of people noticed the changes or otherwise talked to me about it and had to let me know about their disapproval. “Oh, no, it’s good that you lost weight, but… suspicious look
I sincerely believe that if we invented a miracle medicine, a pill you took every day that would guide you to your ideal weight and keep you there, a pill with no downsides, that 30% or so of Americans would protest against its use. They wouldn’t be able to articulate a reason, but their reason would be the same attitude I got from these people. I must’ve cheated somehow. Being fat is a character flaw, and I should suffer more for it. I was getting off too easy. I’m allowed to eventually make these changes, but they have to be accompanied by years of misery and slow change, otherwise you haven’t suffered enough or paid your dues. The only acceptable way to get healthier is to struggle and be miserable and have it take a long time, anything that bypasses or shortens or reduces that is bad, to them.

Even though it would be the one of the greatest medical discoveries of all time, there would be a lot of people to rail against it. I say Americans because I do believe that this is a culturally related belief, and I don’t have enough experience dealing with non-Americans to guess how they might react.

I don’t believe this is only limited to weight, but other conditions that people feel are personal flaws. If we developed a cure for addictions, like, take this pill, your brain resets, you’re not addicted anymore, I think a sizable fraction of the population would be uncomfortable about that. Being an addict to them is a character flaw, and a moral failure, and one of the ways in which they’re better than you. And while we will allow you to overcome it, it must be a huge, long struggle that makes you miserable. Otherwise you cheated.

I’m not sure exactly what causes people to think in this way, but my experience and intuition tells me that it’s part of the puritanical streak that the US has had throughout all of its existence. But that’s just a guess. Maybe it’s something inherent to the way a lot of people think.

I think, as with so many other positive changes we’re having as a society, that the older, more puritanical stick up their ass generations are retiring and dying off, and more open minded people are coming to power. We’re in an exciting period of change for our society. I also think the current political unpleasantness we’re facing right now is basically the last dying breath of that older generation hating those changes, and doing anything they can, no matter how toxic or extreme or hateful or nonsensical, to fight against those changes. So we’re in a rough patch right now, going through that transition. But it’ll open up the chance for smoother sailing in the future.

I’m generally not trying to be be political in this discussion, I don’t want to alienate people, and in general, I realize I have been way too involved (mentally) in politics without the power to change anything, and that has played into my worsening depression. Getting away from spending so much time thinking about that stuff is actually one of the main changes I’m trying to make right now. But it was necessary for me to talk about that a bit to flesh out my views on the subject.

And yes, I know, you might be thinking “well you got fat again, they were sort of right” but no, I don’t believe that’s the case. First, it took me years to regain half the weight I had lost, so the time that I had at a healthier weight was inherently valuable, especially when the alternative was to keep increasing past 400+ pounds. And I never ever did regain all of that weight back. My weight went up to about 320-330 over years and mostly hovered there. Obviously that’s not good, but it’s not as simple as “well you got fat again, you accomplished nothing”

But these people will jump on it and say “but still, obviously it didn’t work, so we were right!” but no, that’s not true either. I’m apparently a weirdo, because I may be the only person in the history of the world to become more depressed as a result of becoming fit.

I don’t want to go into this too deeply because I’m trying to keep this positive, but I had experienced an awful lot of bad shit in my childhood because I was a fat kid. Social isolation, all sorts of cruelty, and not just from children, either. One very formative example: my fifth grade teacher was mad or disappointed in me for some reason - I wasn’t paying as much attention in class, whatever - so she decided to punish me. She would let the the kids who bullied me do so openly in class and with her encouragement. I remember one time we had some sort of creative writing project, and one kid who didn’t like me wrote some sort of story about me that was basically just teeing off at me at how fat I was and how much he hated me for it. And she allowed it. Later, we did a similar project and split up into small groups, and three groups decided to write a creative story in which I was the character and it was just an excuse to make fun of me for being fat. IIRC, each group knew that they were doing it, so they competed to see how mean they could get away with being until the teacher stopped them.

But she didn’t. She allowed it, even sort of egged it on. When the kids were reading this story to the class, and I was obviously upset about it but trying to hide it, she actually said “you don’t mind that they’re poking a little fun at you, do you?” and of course what the fuck am I going to say? I’m a fucking 12 year old kid, I’m trying to take the least painful and embarrassing route out of this situation, and the fucking responsible adult in the room is not only not protecting me, but actively egging this on. So I said no, that’s fine, and did my best not to cry in the middle of class while half the class just tried to inflict harm on me. But it destroyed me. I’d come to accept that kids were cruel, but now adults in positions of authority and responsibility over me are joining in to the cruelty. I held myself together for the rest of the day, then went home and cried all night. I was fucking 12. I didn’t have the mental fortitude to be able to weather that. Who would?

You know, now that I think about it, I don’t think I’ve ever told anyone that story. Maybe I told it to a therapist I saw when I was a teenager, I can’t recall for sure. But holy shit is that incredibly fucked up.

I wasn’t even a problem student. I wasn’t disruptive, I was learning, I was smart, she just hated me so fucking much for being a fat kid that she encouraged this. And you know what? I started taking weight training classes when I was 14 at the YMCA to try to improve myself, and when I 14 or 15, I saw her there, at the gym, working out too. She acknowledged me, but that was it. Here she was, 2-3 years later, after this incident, clearly seeing that I was putting in the effort to improve myself, and it never even occurred to her to step back and say she fucked up and that she was sorry.

Well, I didn’t mean to go so far into that, and turn this sad/negative. Still, I’m not going to delete it because it’s an important part of who I am, and of how I developed, and so as I’m both trying to treat this writing sort of as a discussion and a journal at the same time, I’m going to leave it.

Anyway… the point I was working towards was that after I’d lost all that weight, and became fit, people treated me a whole lot better. Suddenly I was a real person on them, not just a convenient target of abuse to feel a little better about themselves because they could beat me down.

I’ve read the stories of other people who have lost a lot of weight, and they’re all positive about it. They would talk about how much better people treated them, how they developed new friends and new romances, and how happy they were that it was happening. None of them ever resented the implications of the changes in their lives.

None of them apparently ever thought “this person who is treating me well right now, who is treating me like a real person and wants to be my friend? If they had met me a year or two ago when I was fat, they may have treated me like garbage. Am I supposed to be now thrilled that this person now wants to be my friend? Do I want to surround myself with people and pretend that it’s all okay because they’re treating me well now?”

But that thought completely dominated my mind. It made it hard for me to form new friendships and new relationships with people who wouldn’t have even been cruel to me when I was fat, but the suspicion that they might’ve would always be there under the surface. I became even more depressed about it. The better I was treated by people, the more depressed I came.

I hadn’t done anything wrong as a kid. I wasn’t mean, I didn’t act out or rebel, I didn’t commit any crimes. I wanted to make friends, be a loving, good kid, and connect with people. And I’d only suffered isolation and cruelty and sadness and depression, through all of my formative experiences.

All because I ate too much and drank way too much sugary drinks and my mom was too young and immature to recognize the problem and know how to train me out of it. I don’t blame her for that, I don’t think she was malicious in any way, just not good at being a parent in some ways. But I’d done nothing but suffer in my childhood, not because of who I was inside or how I treated people, but just because I was fat. That was all it took for everyone to treat me like a leper and a pariah and an emotional punching bag.

I realized that all, and I resented the weight loss in a way. The better I was treated socially, the more depressed I became. And so, while there are obviously other benefits of being healthy, that completely took the wind out of my sails and I let it go.

Sorry if that’s depressing or uninteresting to read. I didn’t mean to turn this post into a makeshift therapy session. But it kinda lead that way and I decided to just write it out. I’m going to go ahead and recharge for a while and try to answer your thoughts and questions later in a more positive way, and more about my recent experience.

Anyway, thank you for your thoughts and questions. I will be back later to get back on track and answer your questions and talk more about the recent experience. That’s enough of a trip to sad background town. Back to focusing on insight and positive changes later.

It occurs to me that you have the core of a book here. Seriously. You’re very articulate, and the market for first-person stories of inner/outer change is vast. Personally, as a lifelong seeker, I love to read about other people’s quests. Just sayin’.

In retrospect, I went too deep and too sad with the last part. Sorry if that put anyone off. It’s an important part of my life, but I didn’t have to share that here.

Sure, absolutely. In fact, a lot of what I’m thinking about now and working on with my therapist is how to turn this into a long term positive experience. I don’t expect the psychedelic trip or any particular revelation will, by itself, indefinitely cure me of problems.

But it has freed my mind out from under the weight of depression and an inability to change that I was stuck in, at least in a substantial way if not completely. I think this is sort of like a brain reset. My brain is more malleable now. I know I’m going to have to actively work on improving myself and programming positive changes into my brain to give myself the best long term outlook. For example, in the last year, I’ve barely gotten out of the house and rarely did much physical activity. But since the experience, I make sure that I go out every single day and get some exercise even if it’s just walking around the park for 20 minutes. I’m hoping things like that will reinforce positive habits that I will be able to maintain even if the… glow? inspiration? from this experience fades.

In fact, I actually have a feeling that I haven’t felt since I was a teenager. You’ve probably all had this feeling but it has faded with time and you don’t recall it. It certainly had for me. The feeling is - whenever I learn something of substance, or have an epiphany about something, or discover a new perspective on something, I will feel it “blossom” in my brain in a sense. I can feel my mind processing to integrate this new data. And then I’ll feel brain tired, sort of, if that’s the word for it. Not physically tired, and not the miserable feeling of brain fatigue after you’ve been doing mind numbing work all day, but it’s the feeling that your brain needs to sleep to be able to process this new information. You’re thinking very quickly about these new thoughts or new perspective or new data, and then at some point your brain says “okay, buffer full, calm down, we’re going to need to sleep to process this”

Now that I’ve felt it again, I remember feeling this a bunch of times as a child and adolescent when I had learned something significant. I haven’t felt this feeling in at least 15 years.

My interpretation of this is that my brain is more malleable, like it is when you’re younger. You can form new habits, work on old defects, and generally try to do what you can to rewire the way your brain works and the way you respond to things. This manifests itself both in the speed of thinking - realizations that make a change to your worldview turning your brain on high speed for a while, thinking through all the possibilities, and then your brain saying “okay. calm down now. brain is full. give this some time, get some sleep, come back to it later”

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but there’s no point in waiting and seeing. This mental state wearing off would be bad. I would probably sink back into depression and old habits and I’d let a chance to improve myself fade away.

I’m not claiming to have made a giant scientific discovery, or that I have a full grasp on the experience. I’m not giving a ted talk or writing a textbook. I’m trying to make sense of a significant change in the way my brain works. The best way to use this new found feeling of freedom and malleability is to capitalize on it to try to form the best new habits and attitudes that I can. Being passive about it, and waiting to see what happens without actively trying to use this situation to improve myself would be a wasted opportunity.

Thank you. I’ll consider that.

I’m still trying to make sense of the experience and the changes it may allow. I’m a very scientific/skeptically oriented person, so I’m trying to approach this in a practical way and not get too carried away with the more fanciful and out there aspects of it. If you knew me in person, or by my posting history, I’d probably be the last guy you expected to have this sort of experience or appreciate it.

Writing in this thread, along with other things I’m doing, are part of the process of working out the implications of what I’m going through. Why it’s happening, what it means, and how I can use it to improve myself and my life.

If my understanding of this change matures and deepens, and if I’m able to successfully improve myself, I would definitely consider ways I could try to share this experience with other people so that they too might benefit from the perspective.

Got a busy rest of the day, won’t be around till later. Until then, thank you for your thoughts.

Missed the edit window, but tried to add in:

And in fact I just saw a headline about this last night on reddit. It was about using MDMA to treat PTSD. One proposed mechanism of action is that the MDMA lead the brain to be more malleable, which, through effort and therapy and introspection, allowed the person to mold their brain so that thing that caused PTSD wasn’t as significant a part of their basic brain function. Or at least that’s the impression I got from skimming it. I’ll see if I can find the article later.

Hey man, congrats on your break through. To me, your experience with the mj sounds like something I’ve heard plenty of times before (or read about)

May I offer a small bit of advice?
Cement your new outlook/approach to life in your mind at the start of every single day. I’ve been through similar to you (different mechanism though). Every day and sometimes multiple times a day, I still remind myself(its a habit now) to look for the small victories and joys and let the big ones work themselves out as you put forth your best effort. Accept the setbacks as they come, work around over through them and move on while learning something from them, it doesn’t matter what as long as you learn something.

But the main thing is to fix that positive happy attitude in your mind every day or IME it will disappear eventually.

And again, congratulations and best of luck going forward

This indicates to me that you have a very limited experience of the world, or of people who have lost weight/become fit. If you have a food addiction, or you use food to deal with your emotions, then it is almost inevitable that you will be depressed when you stop having that method available to you. It is one of the primary reasons that people gain back the weight they have lost, and why weight loss is generally not considered to be successful until it has lasted for at least five years (I personally think ten years is a more appropriate measure of success).

Certainly for me, the absolute worst period of my life emotionally was after I lost 100 lbs. I was at my ideal weight, wearing a size 4 dress, and sobbing at my desk because I couldn’t handle all of the feelings that I had been suppressing with food. Fortunately I was able to get help through therapy, and learn coping techniques that allowed me to handle things effectively even without using food as a drug. Most of the people I have known who have lost weight have had similar experiences.

I’m glad that you’re feeling good about your experience right now. But one thing that is common to many addictions is the “pink cloud” when you are first released from the urges. It doesn’t always last. You want to be prepared, and have some tools in your toolbox in case it doesn’t.

Thank you. This is similar to the advice that my therapist gives me, especially appreciating the small victories. The things I’ve been able to do on a daily basis would seem trivial to a hard-working or otherwise motivated person, but they’re big deals for me. Your advice is very similar to the realizations I’ve had that are motivating me and inspiring me to establish new good habits, attitudes, and perspectives. This is good advice.

I haven’t had much of a chance to type up thoughts lately - I hate typing long things on a phone, and I’m deliberately keeping limited computer access. But I’ll pop in sometime soonish to share new thoughts.

Having some difficulties with the dietary changes. Over the weekend, I felt spent and really sore. Makes sense - my activity level is not super high, but it was much higher than it was before, and it caught up with me and my body needed some rest. So I figured I’d take it easy for a day. But… I couldn’t sleep. I’m having trouble falling asleep in general, but over the weekend I would snap awake after 45-75 minutes pretty consistently. My body couldn’t heal because I couldn’t sleep, so I stayed really sore for a few days. Finally, on Sunday night, I decided to eat a big meal and I was finally able to stay asleep for a few hours.

My subjective perception of hunger has been stronger since the day I felt sore. It took more effort not to eat, but I stuck with it for a couple of days. But it seems like my body wasn’t willing to sleep until I had a big meal.

Back when I did the low carbing thing, it changes your relationship with hunger. The normal hunger most people feel, I think, is really a drop in blood sugar rather than the body’s internal “feed me, I need to repair” signal. When you’re low carbing, your blood sugar evens out and you don’t get that blood sugar drop hunger anymore, you just get the “feed me, I really need it now” hunger feeling. It’s a different, distinct feeling that most people probably don’t feel very often unless they’re into intermittent fasting. That’s probably part of why low carbing works, you’re much more in tune with real hunger signals and when you need to eat.

So what I’m hoping is… I was unusually spent from activity, my body was kinda kicking over into a higher activity metabolic mode in response to my new activity, and I was getting more of the same sort of hunger feelings I was getting while low carbing. Maybe my hunger scales more proportionately now with how much I actually need the food.

After that (last night and today), my hunger went down a bit again and I didn’t need to eat as much to be able to sleep. But I still feel hungrier than I did a week ago. So I’m cautious about the hunger creeping back in. I’m hopeful that it’s related to my body reworking itself because of my increased activity. But it’s hard to know for sure until I’ve had more time to see how I react.

I’ve been pretty disciplined about new habits. I’m integrating more high fiber food to suppress hunger, like fresh fruits and fibrous granola bars. I was invited out to go out to eat (free to me), but it was in a way that I knew I’d be extremely tempted to overeat, so I turned it down. And that’s something I haven’t done in a very long time.

It’s tough living in such a great food city - Las Vegas. This city has some great food, and a lot of great buffets, and that’s a bad idea for learning new habits and keeping my stomach size small and all that. We even have a great sushi scene here - there’s enough of a high-end sushi scene that low-end sushi places get enough leftover to have surprisingly great quality. There are dozens of places here that do all you can eat sushi for $25, and at least half a dozen of them are actually really good, way better than what you’d expect to get in terms of AYCE sushi outside of a few foodie coastal cities in the US. I would have a really hard time going to my favorite buffet or sushi place and not pigging out, so I’m just going to go without them for a while, maybe indefinitely. Which is a sacrifice, but that’s what discipline is. I’m doing my best.

Thank you for sharing this experience and I especially appreciate the background story. I was really moved by what you went through with that teacher and your classmates. I was also a fat kid and had a similar soul-killing experience at age 13 where an adult, who should have protected me, acted like an eighth-grade kid. It was crushing. I wish you all the best on this journey.

I’ve noticed in the past that when I get a lot of exercise, I’m protein hungry for days after.

Very interesting!

I was skinny as a kid, but started eating compulsively late in life. I’m seldom hungry, and don’t eat much during the day but I often munch compulsively on chocolate, ice cream or junk late at night. If I go to sleep early, there’s little problem … but I seldom do. I blame my insomnia (and the associated overeating) on SDMB and its tendency to provoke me into staying awake to rant compulsively! :stuck_out_tongue:

Just a few weeks ago I decided my sudden increase in overweight was a serious risk to my health, and have managed to lose several pounds since. But your post reminds me I’ve not smoked any weed for over a year! Maybe there’s a correlation there and I should start smoking again. Unfortunately the Thailand/U.S.A. situation is now opposite to what it was a few decades ago. :smack: Where I live, weed is now harder to get and more dangerous police-wise than in the U.S.A.

I’m at the three week point, so I figured I’d post an update. It’s not quite as easy as it was when I wrote this, when I had very little interest in food. Since then, I’m hungrier on average. But not as bad as it used to be. And not as controlling of my behavior, with its super strong urges.

I’ve successfully kept my goal of reducing calorie consumption by 1/4th to 1/3rd, but it’s not effortless. But it’s well within my ability to currently handle. I don’t have a scale - I may order one but I’m not really in a rush to know my daily weight, it fluctuates and it’s not that important to monitor closely as long as you’re moving in the right direction. I have a doctor’s appointment next week so I’ll get to measure it then. Three different people all independently told me I’ve lost weight though, which is surprising so soon.

I’ve had some emotional/mental trials since writing this and I realize now that in addition to having an addiction-like hunger urge, I definitely also do comfort/self-medicate with food. When I’m having a really bad day, I’m hungrier and feel like I can eat more without getting bloated, like my stomach is actually bigger or some similar effect. I’m tempted to justify having something like ice cream or some other high calorie treat. I went to a favorite park on a bad day to try to work myself out of a bad mood, but I noticed that there’s a dairy queen at the other end of the park. I tried to convince myself that it’s alright to do on a bad day, and it’s an occasional treat, and blah blah. And there’s some truth to that - I have had very few high calorie treats like that recently - but I realize that allowing myself to medicate emotional turmoil with favorite high calorie foods is a dangerous link, and so I was able to control myself and refuse it. It may not sound like much, but it’s probably something I would’ve been unable to do a month ago.

I feel like my stomach should’ve shrunken more than it has. I feel like, in the past, when I’ve made an effort to eat less, my stomach capacity more closely tracks the amount I’m eating, and creates a sensation of fullness with less food. I haven’t had that to nearly the same degree this time, and I’m not sure why. I’ve avoided going out to eat to places that would have large meals. Buffets, most restaurants, places that I’d normally pig out like a favorite bar that has great cheap food on Sundays, etc. (I actually turned down someone else’s offer to go to some of my favorite places and pig out, their treat). Other than a couple times where I’ve slipped up and had too much pizza (which I compensated for later by skipping a meal), I haven’t had any meals that were beyond around 1200 calories. I’m averaging closer to 600-700 per meal when 1500-2000 calorie meals where not uncommon in the past. That wasn’t the average, but I would frequent eat large meals like that at restaurants, or combining a decent sized dinner with too much dessert at home. I really don’t know why my stomach doesn’t seem to be shrinking too much - in my experience it makes things easier when it does. It should be better in that regard by now.

I think I may be able to trust my hunger more. I think part of the increased hunger comes from increased need, rather than backsliding on a food addiction. I’ve been much more physically active than I was before the experience, so I may be hungrier for that reason. One thing I know from my experience in the past from low carbing is that your body has two types of hunger signals. The normal one you feel most of the time is when your blood sugar drops because insulin has finally reduced the blood sugar below a certain level and your body reacts to that drop. This is what explains the stereotypical “you eat chinese food and you’re hungry again 3 hours later” feeling. Most “chinese” food Americans experience digests super fast, is made up of mostly simple starches and sugars, and so the blood sugar spike and subsequent crash is pretty fast, so you get hungry faster than you think you should. That’s the hunger that’s a reaction to a blood sugar crash.

If you go longer without eating, like if you practice fasting, or you simply don’t have the blood sugar based hunger anymore when you low carb because your blood sugar is low and controlled, you get a different hunger feeling. It’s actually physically different, in my experience. More urgent and unpleasant, located in a different place in your gut, with a different sensation. In that case, this is your body actually saying “hey, I’ve got repairs to do, I need food to get this done” rather than just “hey, your blood sugar dropped, eat more carbs” - it’s much more in tune with what your body actually needs to function.

I think most of the increase in hunger is of the latter type, and my increased activity is making me hungrier. It’s not totally clear, because it’s not nearly so clear cut as the differences between the hunger feelings when I’m low carbing. There’s some ambiguity where the feeling can be sort of in between.

So, not as easy a road as I had hoped, but not much backsliding either. I’ve been able to maintain discipline and a good attitude throughout so far. I actually find myself enthusiastic about activity, working out, and improving my shape, which obviously helps enormously. I’m starting from a very low place fitness wise, so the amount of exercise I can do is limited, but I try to get out and do something every day. I managed to overdo it recently when I was preparing for a move and ended up hurting something in my lower leg pretty bad - I knew I was pushing myself too hard but I had deadlines to meet. When I recover from that I’m going to start swimming, which is probably the best exercise I can do overall. I may try to craft specific meals for workout recovery rather than just eating more - stuff like low calorie protein shakes - to make sure my body isn’t deprived of necessary building materials without necessarily raising my calorie intake that much.