I hate BP.

[Great_Antibob]

@Try2B_Comprehensive

Anyway, Scientific American disagrees with you pooh-pooers:

Check the dates on the articles again:

Your counter-cite is from May of 2010, which is taken right after the disaster, before the well was capped, and before the full impact was actually determined.

Compared to the Guardian article, taken from Feb of 2011, after the well was capped and much of the clean-up accomplished.

Do you really want to counter-cite a post-facto article that reviews the actual disaster with a “what-if” worst scenario article that was written nearly a year earlier with few real details on the spill?

Yes, there’s still uncleaned oil out there. It’s far from making the Gulf a dead zone. There will definitely be effects for decades and possibly centuries, but many of the same things making the Gulf different from Alaska also means the recovery is vastly different.

The opposite of not agreeing with you is not pooh-poohing the problem.

Most of us are simply trying to examine the situation as it actually is, rather than launching into hyperbolic tirades that make little sense.

@Try2B_Comprehensive

Pedantry!

Based on the quality of your posts, I’ll take that as a compliment.

[Lust4Life]

@Try2B_Comprehensive

Heh. I have some kind of problem all right. I don’t remember ever being so furious about anything, ever. The Al Qaeda terrorists, by way of excuse, can fall back on being our hateful enemies if nothing else. And 10 years times 100,000 troops leaves me feeling like there is a lid on that situation. But *poisoning the fucking sea *takes the cake. With this, there is a mad colossus loose on the Earth, and it is such great pals with the other colossi that none will get rid of it. The bride is an old whore, and we watched her leave a turd on the altar! The priest is a lusting, zombie goat, and he is laughing at YOU! The church is upside-down, it is underwater, on a volcano, the organ farts enormous amounts of oil, and the zombie goat is at the controls! Justice is merely a word! I’m in a rowboat on a sea of heartbreak. I can’t even drink myself blind with grief, I have to meet a dozen students for Thanksgiving dinner. And let’s face it, Lions-Packers is probably the game of the year…

Wtf. Why am I typing this in the middle of the night? Because I am having a fucking nightmare, that’s why. I am not a natural-born hater. Really I just want to pay my bills and read my books. This issue turns me into a real asshole. It leaves me feeling like I want to run away, but I know it doesn’t work that way. It’s a mountain of shit behind a thin curtain. You really would think I’d have gotten over it by now. Worse things have happened in history- not many, but it’s true. In life I’m productive to the point of hyperactivity, I’ve been resilient in the face of plenty of heartbreaking defeats and picked myself up again. But this one leaves me seething. It boils. Nothing has ever been so infuriating.

I’m not going to actually do anything besides seethe and rant. But this is crazy. Assuming BP can’t be eliminated, how do I get over it?

Do you have mental health issues ?

You seem to be incoherent.

[Try2B_Comprehensive]

@Wheelz

Professional therapy?

I dunno. Those guys can be cranks. I prefer the DIY approach.

[Try2B_Comprehensive]

@Wheelz

Professional therapy?

I dunno. Those guys can be cranks. I prefer the DIY approach.

@Lust4Life

Do you have mental health issues ?

You seem to be incoherent.

I was transcribing a nightmare. I am probably a little crazy, but not off the rails. This issue sometimes looms disturbingly large.

[Try2B_Comprehensive]

@Princhester

You understand little. Go read the wikipedia entryfor a basic primer. You have no idea what you are talking about. Your grip on the facts Deepwater Horizon incident is probably similar.

All right. According to wiki, the causes of Exxon’s spill were as follows:

Exxon Shipping Company failed to supervise the master and provide a rested and sufficient crew for Exxon Valdez. The NTSB found this was widespread throughout the industry, prompting a safety recommendation to Exxon and to the industry.[13]
The third mate failed to properly maneuver the vessel, possibly due to fatigue or excessive workload.[13]
Exxon Shipping Company failed to properly maintain the Raytheon Collision Avoidance System (RAYCAS) radar, which, if functional, would have indicated to the third mate an impending collision with the Bligh reef by detecting the “radar reflector”, placed on the next rock inland from Bligh Reef for the purpose of keeping boats on course via radar.

Other factors, according to an M.I.T. course entitled “Software System Safety” by Professor Nancy G. Leveson,[16] included:
1.Tanker crews were not told that the previous practice of the Coast Guard tracking ships out to Bligh reef had ceased.[17]
2.The oil industry promised, but never installed, state-of-the-art iceberg monitoring equipment.[18]
3.Exxon Valdez was sailing outside the normal sea lane to avoid small icebergs thought to be in the area.[18]
4.The 1989 tanker crew was half the size of the 1977 crew, worked 12−14 hour shifts, plus overtime. The crew was rushing to leave Valdez with a load of oil.[19]
5.Coast Guard tanker inspections in Valdez were not done, and the number of staff was reduced.[19]

When I get back from work I’ll compile a list of causes of the BP disaster. I think it will be clear that in BP’s case the negligence was far more egregious. But I have to admit, Exxon looks pretty bad here.

[BrainGlutton]

All the same, I try not to boycott (i.e., take any particular effort to avoid) BP filling stations. The guys who own and run them are just, you know, small businessmen trying to make a living. Corporate policy ain’t their fault nor their call.

[Try2B_Comprehensive]

For now, consider this:

What is at fault here is not just one man and his boardroom but an entire way of doing business. Ever since the formerly government-owned corporation went entirely private in 1987, and especially under the 12-year reign of John Browne from the mid-90s, BP has adopted a business manner that could politely be described as gung ho. Its American rival Exxon is fierce about keeping to high technical standards, Shell prides itself on its solid engineering – but BP has long been about outsourcing vital operations (the Deepwater Horizon rig that exploded was owned and operated by another firm), doing big deals (taking over Amoco, for instance) and trading. It is, in short, an oil company that acts like a particularly brash bank.

Considering what is at stake, BP’s behavior is utterly unacceptable. It is blind, reckless and at heart, cruel. After literally hundreds of millions of dollars in fines pre-blowout, no less.

But there are also major questions to be asked about big British business and its approach to risk. Whether it is BP, Prudential and its bull-headed attempt to buy a giant Asian insurer (finally killed this week) or RBS and its possibly fatal takeover of Dutch rival ABN Amro, UK plc has coined a way of doing business that is about acting first and thinking later; doing the megadeal rather than attempting slower, more sustainable growth. It is an approach that has partly been shaped by America-envy (deals are always bigger and flashier on Wall Street) but also by a subservience to the City and its demands for quick growth and shareholder returns. It is an approach that has too much froth and too little substance.

We are talking about bad business. I strain to recall any example of a business causing more harm. That it was so carelessly accomplished in this, our modern age, is simply beyond the pale.

[Try2B_Comprehensive]

@Great_Antibob

Most of us are simply trying to examine the situation as it actually is, rather than launching into hyperbolic tirades that make little sense.

I’m trying to examine it as it is as well. My subjective experience is real too. Sorry my nightmare narrative didn’t make a lot of sense. My hypothesis is that my subconscious was spinning dream imagery out of pre-existing emotions. The structure is quirky in a way particular to me: it is constructed around a song. The oil spill is represented performed on a submerged pipe organ that farts enormous amounts of oil. Presumably the piece takes ~100 days to perform; the notes track the various oil output conditions from the rig.

My original post is mostly an omission. I was going about my business and leading my fantastic life when suddenly I was overcome once again by the spitball of emotions surrounding the BP situation. I had a perfectly good anger rant, but frankly I thought it would be mocked and cut it out. It all boiled down to hating BP and thinking the rest of you should be persuaded to hate them too.

Well the OP got panned with comments like ‘it isn’t even a rant’. A better rant presented itself once, worked up about the issue in advance, I was seized by nightmares.

The part that doesn’t make sense is probably the most interesting. I am describing the submerged turd-chuch, then I’ve somehow escaped and am in the rowboat on a sea of oil 50 miles from shore, then I’m talking about the Packers. Incoherent? No. I had just woken up and could still clearly look upon my breaking nightmare, at the same time I was taking in the reality of the coming day. Waking, I was furious at BP. Sleeping, my feelings inflated into a multi-media production. I percieved a third place where maybe I could get away: blotto drunk.

Back when it was, “Day 65: BP’s top brass anxiously struggles to pull their heads out of each other’s asses!”, the horror was everywhere and I thought I’d just get wasted. If you ever try this, I strongly recommend shelling out extra for higher-quality liquor, as it won’t make you sick and you might not even get a hangover. You’re still not doing your body any favors but think about it.

Anyway I have too much invested in my personal health and fitness to develop an LTR with Bellvedere or Bombay Sapphire. But the disgust is at record levels. What has ever been more disgusting? For all the unholy bullshit spun by my worried mind in a black nightmare, none of it disgusts like 200 million gallons of oil dumped into the Gulf of Mexico.

None of it offends like the spill. In the nightmare, the whore apparently is being married to everyone at once by the zombie goat priest, hence the laughing at YOU!. This spill reached out and affected all of our lives, it wasn’t just something we could watch. It touched us, and I think it is fucking disgusting.

Into the mix add the extraordinarily vexing causes of the spill and the emotional pressure becomes claustraphobic and hence the desire to flee. In reality it can’t be fled, but drinking provides the suggestion of escape.

It is the pit so if posters want to be ad hominem I might as well respond straightforwardly anyway. I’ll confront my inner asshole if it helps bring justice closer to BP.

Based on the quality of your posts, I’ll take that as a compliment.

There is no way to sugar-coat it, so I will be blunt: I don’t find you all that infuriating.

[Great_Antibob]

@Try2B_Comprehensive

There is no way to sugar-coat it, so I will be blunt: I don’t find you all that infuriating.

Fair enough. I wasn’t trying to be infuriating. Being called a pedant doesn’t actually bother me.

But since this is the Pit, I guess I should toss in more insults every now and again.

[Princhester]

@Try2B_Comprehensive

For now, consider this:

What is at fault here is not just one man and his boardroom but an entire way of doing business. Ever since the formerly government-owned corporation went entirely private in 1987, and especially under the 12-year reign of John Browne from the mid-90s, BP has adopted a business manner that could politely be described as gung ho. Its American rival Exxon is fierce about keeping to high technical standards, Shell prides itself on its solid engineering – but BP has long been about outsourcing vital operations (the Deepwater Horizon rig that exploded was owned and operated by another firm), doing big deals (taking over Amoco, for instance) and trading. It is, in short, an oil company that acts like a particularly brash bank.

Considering what is at stake, BP’s behavior is utterly unacceptable. It is blind, reckless and at heart, cruel. After literally hundreds of millions of dollars in fines pre-blowout, no less.

You said you were going to come back with a list of causes and what you have come back with is a diatribe (wholly lacking citations to hard facts) from an editorial.

Further, about the only objective statement in your cite is: “BP has long been about outsourcing vital operations (the Deepwater Horizon rig that exploded was owned and operated by another firm)”. So the worst your cite actually says is that BP outsourced to someone else who fucked up bigtime. And out of this you bizarrely draw the conclusion that BP’s behaviour is “blind, reckless and at heart cruel”. I don’t think you know what those words mean, or if you do your hyperbole (if that is what it is supposed to be) is not really hyperbole but completely fact-bereft shit.

[Wheelz]

Try2B Comprehensive, I’m going to go ahead and say it again, but without a question mark this time:

Professional therapy.

[Try2B_Comprehensive]

@Princhester

You said you were going to come back with a list of causes and what you have come back with is a diatribe (wholly lacking citations to hard facts) from an editorial.

I haven’t forgotten. Rl has taken over- I’ve only managed to post about 2 lines in the past week. Sorry.
There are two answers. I’d trace the embryonic cause of the spill to Thatcher’s declaration, “There is no society.” Not the precise moments of her utterance of the words mind you, but the entire cultural context of the event. I think this is one aspect of BP’s business philosophy.

Then of course there is the wiki:

On April 30, the House Committee on Energy and Commerce asked Halliburton to brief it as well as provide any documents it might have related to its work on the Macondo well.[158] Attention has focused on the cementing procedure and the blowout preventer, which failed to fully engage.[397] A number of significant problems have been identified with the blowout preventer: There was a leak in the hydraulic system that provides power to the shear rams. The underwater control panel had been disconnected from the pipe ram, and instead connected to a test ram. The blowout preventer schematic drawings, provided by Transocean to BP, do not correspond to the structure that is on the ocean bottom. The shear rams are not designed to function on the joints where the drill pipes are screwed together or on tools that are passed through the blowout preventer during well construction. The explosion may have severed the communication line between the rig and the sub-surface blowout preventer control unit such that the blowout preventer would have never received the instruction to engage. Before the backup dead man’s switch could engage, communications, power and hydraulic lines must all be severed, but it is possible hydraulic lines were intact after the explosion. Of the two control pods for the deadman switch, the one that has been inspected so far had a dead battery.[398] Employee Tyrone Benton told the BBC on June 21 that a leak was spotted on a crucial piece of equipment in the oil rig’s blowout preventer weeks before the accident, and that Transocean and BP were emailed about it.[399]
According to the testimony of Doug Brown, the chief mechanic on the Deepwater Horizon, on May 26 at the joint U.S. Coast Guard and Minerals Management Service hearing, a BP representative overruled Transocean employees and insisted on displacing protective drilling mud with seawater just hours before the explosion.[400] One of the BP representatives on the board responsible for making the final decision, Robert Kaluza, refused to testify on the Fifth Amendment grounds that he might incriminate himself; Donald Vidrine, another BP representative, cited medical reasons for his inability to testify, as did James Mansfield, Transocean’s assistant marine engineer on board.[401][402][403]
In a June 18 statement, Jim Hackett, the CEO of Anadarko Petroleum Corporation, said research “indicates BP operated unsafely and failed to monitor and react to several critical warning signs during the drilling. … BP’s behavior and actions likely represent gross negligence or willful misconduct.”[404]

According to the US Congressional investigation, the rig’s blowout preventer, a fail-safe device fitted at the base of the well, built by Cameron International Corporation, had a hydraulic leak and a failed battery, and therefore failed.[406] On August 19, Admiral Thad Allen ordered BP to keep the blowout preventer to be used as evidence in any court actions.[164] On August 25, Harry Thierens, BP’s vice president for drilling and completions, told the hearing that he found that the blowout preventer was connected to a test pipe, rather than the one conveying oil to the surface. He said that he was “frankly astonished that this could have happened.”[407]

Sorry for the lazy style, some of the links are as follows:

158.^ a b c Brenner, Noah; Guegel, Anthony; Hwee Hwee, Tan; Pitt, Anthea (2010-04-30). “Congress calls Halliburton on Macondo”. Upstream Online (NHST Media Group). Retrieved 2010-05-01.

397.^ Gillis, Justin; Broder, John (2010-05-10). “Nitrogen-Cement Mix Is Focus of Gulf Inquiry”. The New York Times (The New York Times Company)

398.^ Bart Stupak, Chairman (2010-05-12). Opening Statement, “Inquiry into the Deepwater Horizon Gulf Coast Oil Spill”. U.S. House Committee on Commerce and Energy, Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations. Retrieved 2010-05-12.
399.^ Andersson, Hilary (2010-06-21). “BP was told of oil safety fault ‘weeks before blast’”. BBC News. Retrieved 2010-06-25.

400.^ David Hammer (2010-05-26). “Hearings: BP representative overruled drillers, insisted on displacing mud with seawater”. Times-Picayune. Retrieved 2010-05-26.

401.^ David Hammer (2010-05-26). “Oil spill hearings: BP man on Deepwater Horizon rig refuses to testify, says he will take the Fifth”. Times-Picayune. Retrieved 2010-05-27.

402.^ Erika Bolstad, Joseph Goodman and Marisa Taylor (2010-05-26). “BP worker takes 5th, making prosecution a possibility”. Retrieved 2010-05-27.

403.^ David Hammer (2010-05-27). “Joint hearings resume in Kenner with a reduced witness list”. Times-Picayune. Retrieved 2010-05-27.

Further, about the only objective statement in your cite is: “BP has long been about outsourcing vital operations (the Deepwater Horizon rig that exploded was owned and operated by another firm)”. So the worst your cite actually says is that BP outsourced to someone else who fucked up bigtime. And out of this you bizarrely draw the conclusion that BP’s behaviour is “blind, reckless and at heart cruel”. I don’t think you know what those words mean, or if you do your hyperbole (if that is what it is supposed to be) is not really hyperbole but completely fact-bereft shit.

By ‘cruel’ I am referring to BP’s habit of paying the fines rather than actually correcting their safety violations. In effect they are playing Russian roulette with other people’s lives, which I consider cruel.

[Princhester]

Your post is a mass of unconnected dots and the unexplained opinion of someone about whose credentials and motivation I have no idea. Has there been an inquiry into the whole thing that has arrived at a conclusion?

I’m not sure what your last line means. Do you think they shouldn’t pay the fines? What safety violations have they not corrected? And I don’t think you know what cruel means.

[Cicero]

@Princhester

And I don’t think you know what cruel means.

Not sure about that. From his posts he is the original cruel shepherd.

[gaffa]

A good friend of mine has a completely non oil-spill related reason to hate BP.

He owns a Mercedes-Benz Sprinter that he is converting into an RV.

A couple of useful facts:
[ul]
[li]This vehicle runs on diesel fuel.[/li][li]The standard color for diesel fuel pump handles is green.[/li][/ul]

…except at motherfucking BP stations! To “re-brand” their evil corporation as being “green”,they changed all their pump handles to green ones. Except the diesel ones, which are black.

So my friend, taking his Sprinter for a drive from Kansas to Minnesota made the mistake of fueling up at a BP, and like he had at ever other filling station, pulled up to a pump with a green handle, having been trained that “green=diesel” by green being diesel at EVERY SINGLE OTHER FUCKING STATION FROM KANSAS TO MINNESOTA!

Their desire to “rebrand” their corporation caused $1500 worth of damage to his brand new engine. Admittedly, he could have been fucked harder by BP if he had a shrimp boat, but he was still fucked.

[amanset]

@gaffa

Their desire to “rebrand” their corporation caused $1500 worth of damage to his brand new engine. Admittedly, he could have been fucked harder by BP if he had a shrimp boat, but he was still fucked.

No, his inability to read did.

What kind of fuckwit trusts the colour of the pump handles over what it says on the fucking things?

[gaffa]

@amanset

No, his inability to read did.

What kind of fuckwit trusts the colour of the pump handles over what it says on the fucking things?

Do you read the “on off” text on every light switch before flipping it, or do you trust that up is usually on? Do you taste the white granules in the large container on the restaurant table to ensure that it is sugar before putting it in your coffee? In this case, it is as if, in order to distinguish themselves, the restaurant decided that people were eating too much sugar and that it should only be sprinkled on carefully, so they put it in the small shaker next to the pepper. And they had special small sugar shakers made that had the word “sugar” engraved on them. Right there, easy to read.

Eat me.

[Great_Antibob]

@gaffa

Do you read the “on off” text on every light switch before flipping it, or do you trust that up is usually on?

Well, as you can see the light for yourself, the state of the switch is self-evident. And there’s rarely any reason I should care either way, unlike putting the wrong fuel in my car.

@gaffa

Do you taste the white granules in the large container on the restaurant table to ensure that it is sugar before putting it in your coffee?

After several pranking incidents, yes, I do check each and every time. It’s turned out useful on more than one occasion.

Your friend is an idiot fuckwit. So are you. Deal with it.

[gaffa]

@Great_Antibob

After several pranking incidents, yes, I do check each and every time. It’s turned out useful on more than one occasion.

Your friend is an idiot fuckwit. So are you. Deal with it.

Given that the sort of people you hang around with perform idiot pranks like switching sugar for salt in restaurants, I’d say you are now a world class expert of fuckwittery.

[Great_Antibob]

@gaffa

Given that the sort of people you hang around with perform idiot pranks like switching sugar for salt in restaurants, I’d say you are now a world class expert of fuckwittery.

You mean your local teenagers don’t act like teenagers?

Tell me where that is and I’ll catch the first plane.

On second thought, never mind. If having kids who don’t switch sugar/salt or TP houses means you’re idiot enough to put regular in a diesel car, I’ll deal with the minor pranks and jokes.

Who the hell doesn’t notice regular/diesel pumps look different beyond the color of the pump handle? Virtually all gas pumps these days show 3 grades. It takes stupidity combined with absolutely no situational awareness to make that kind of mixup.

BP’s screwed up in a lot of ways. This ain’t one of them.