No bedtime, not potty trained, and doesn’t do the necessary work with a speech therapist because she doesn’t want to - it kind of blows my mind when people abdicate their responsibilities in favour of a toddler, like she knows better than they do. That’s the pattern I see here - mom isn’t willing to do what her child needs, if it makes the child uncomfortable.
Listen to Cat Whisperer.
The lack of a bedtime in itself is not much of an issue.The pattern is the reason for concern.
Stay out of it.
Unless you are asked for advice on someone else’s parenting, don’t give it.
It is within the range of normal not to be completely toilet trained at 3 1/2.
Bedtimes - well, it isn’t how I’d raise my kids, and I think “setting yourself up for a power struggle” is probably right (or alternatively, setting yourself up for a really really hard time with the school system and the truancy officer when the kid is expected to be at school on time), but some kids will self regulate once they have a schedule they have to live to. If the child currently has no reason to have a schedule, having an offset schedule of staying up late and sleeping in isn’t really any different than living in a different timezone.
Speech therapy. Would be nice to get it, but I don’t think you are going to make headway against Grandpa. And there is no obligation for her to - at this point - seek therapy.
But none of these issues mean that the child is scarred for life and will never recover.
I agree, there is a pattern here that is disturbing, but it isn’t disturbing enough for CPS to intervene.
If you are asked for advice, point out that a bedtime is going to need to be established to support school - and that easing into such a thing at this point might be easier than trying to enforce one suddenly at five. Easing in might mean expecting “quiet play” in her room after 10:00 pm for now, and moving that time forward, with lights out being enforced at a different point. That similarly, with speech therapy, early intervention is usually more successful (and sometimes being a parent means that you have to enforce things that annoy your child).
IIRC you’ve posted about this situation before, when she was your girlfriend. And what I can remember of that is that your friend and her daughter need to get out of her parents home.
Nearly 4 years old and she’s not potty trained? Not good. The no set schedule/bedtime up until she passes out thing? Worse.
Does the friend set any limits with the child? You say that she has no discipline, and that the child fights going to bed.
The short answer is that children need to learn how to live in a world where they don’t get their way, and that all the screaming and crying won’t fix it.
I’ve got a relative who wants to “reason” and convince her four-year old girl of everything (OK, do you want to go home now?) and backs off when the girl cries. If the girl doesn’t get her way, she pouts, cries, has a fit, etc., etc., etc.
The girl is getting to be quite the pill, and is very unpleasant to be around.
It’s easy to over discipline a child, but it’s also easy to under discipline.
Agreed. I didn’t have a real bedtime growing up. I just naturally went to sleep early enough so I wouldn’t be tired when I was woken up. My parents didn’t neglect me, it just never really was an issue.
I’m 26, and I remember watching at least the opening monologue of Johny Carson’s Tonight Show, and even occasionally staying up to see Dave’s show. It didn’t hurt me one bit.
Anecdotally, I know someone who displayed, and continues to display similar attitudes to parenting. The kid didn’t have to do anything she didn’t want to from Day One. No boundaries, no meals she didn’t like (which pretty much encompassed everything healthy) no age appropriate restrictions or limitations.
Now, at 13, she stays up until 2am, has to be woken numerous times to get ready for school, too tired for breakfast or to take care of any of the usual tasks required (like packing her bag and lunch etc.) She cannot manage her time at all (for homework, outings, anything) and is always cranky and unpleasant because of a complete lack of quality sleep. She has permanently dark circles under her eyes that would make a zombie jealous. She does okay in school, though I think that’s because everyone does. Basically, she is treated like a toddler (no chores, no responsibilites). The basic difference now, is that she has angry rights, rather than tantrum ones.
It appears to only get worse, not better. And as a younger kid, she was only ever invited overnight to other kid’s places once; no repeat invitations.
I think it’s really unkind to give kids all the authority and no responsibility. How do they know what’s best for them?
What’s so wrong with going to bed anyway?
WTF.
Don’t listen to that.
First, when a kid is pooing in his pants at 6, he needs to be taken to a doctor.
Second, if the kid is 3 and doesn’t have a bedtime, kay, well, that may be a power struggle later.
Why does this kid have a speech therapist at the age of THREE?! And why are you on a message board talking about your “friend”? Do you want advice? Are you really worried? We’d need more info…but so far, the ‘no bedtime’ and ‘pooping’ is not a reason for social friggin services.
eta: Some speech therapists are really torturous. I’m still not sure why the child has a speech disorder before the age of four, but okay. There’s clearly more we don’t know.
Without being the OP and knowing the kid specifically … very likely a language delay. Like - not talking at all f’rinstance, that would do it. That’s why my son started going when he was two. Best thing in the world. I’m sorry to hear of anyone who’s been recommended to Speech Therapy and then just dropped it.
Yeah but we don’t know. And “out of control” to one person is “being a normal kid” to another.
Sorry it took me so long to respond.
Dangerosa was right, this girl and I broke up but remained friends and I see her little girl from time to time.
I do what I can to talk to her about it. I just started to like the child and would feel comforted knowing she wasn’t doomed.
I should stay out of it. I don’t know if I should keep seeing the child, (we are friends and I do enjoy the company). The child is exposed to other male friends of hers, and we never showed affection in front of her.
The child definitely has a hard time expressing herself, so she remains quiet a lot. I pushed my friend to try and get her back into speech, NOT JUST because she’s “delayed”, but it forces her to concentrate, and take instructions. When she does talk, I need her mom to translate.
I don’t see her acting badly too much, but that’s because she gets excited to see me, and has a respect for me in a way. Her mom half jokes that she “beats her up” when she’s not getting her way, (and I’m not around). There’s no “timeout” or anything like that. They, (her family), rarely yell at her. It’s like between her and her mother, she’s the boss.
Her parents nag at her to stop when they are looking after her, but they just watch TV with her in the room. Grandfather never yells at her, Grandmother is passive… but she’s also a bit of a loon. Both are. My friend’s the most normal with 2 job, and she’s an A student. Just not a great mom, and not there a lot because of her jobs. They expect her to do all the pottytraining stuff.
I just hope it’s not too late for her. That she might not turn into a developmentally slow wild-child.
Oh, and her father is not seeing her because he had sex with a 16 year old, and the investigation into that is still pending I guess. (I know he did it… I think the cops have proof).
It sounds like you just don’t think your friend is doing a good job raising her kid.
That’s fine, but parenting style is one of those things that are almost impossible to provide constructive criticism about. It basically never works, and any attempts are just going to make the receiver angry and even defiant, and the only thing it can do is harm the friendship. Your distaste is probably going to have to be kept recreational.
If it works you up too much, you will have to make decisions about if maintaining the friendship is worth it to you.
Anyway, kids grow up in refugee camps and drug dens and a lot of situations that are a lot worse than having a spacey mom. Obviously her situation is not ideal, but she’ll probably be fine.
Right. Speech therapy around 2-3 years old is not uncommon.
For those that haven’t seen it in action: It focuses more on muscle control than trying to talk. The exercises are more along the lines of ‘blow bubbles with this thing’ than 'repeat the letter R one hundred times".