I know it may be hard, but while being a non-citizen, he was also illegal (I realize it was covered earlier in this string, but just in case) and as far as I know, committing murder is against the law whether you’re in this country legally or not - not just because it’s against the Second Amendment.
Should the agency that flagged him for deportation, but then never followed through be liable? Is there such a thing as accountability with the Government, unless you’re with the IRS?
Yeah, I know that. That’s exactly what I wrote in the sentence of mine you quoted and then restated.
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Should the agency that flagged him for deportation, but then never followed through be liable?
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Welcome back to the actual topic of the thread. If you scroll up, you’ll see I already posted my opinion (tldr version: no.)
I’m going to guess that he was ordered deported, but let go on bond or ROR as he appealed the order. I can’t imagine why an illegal immigrant would be granted bond. They are an obvious flight risk.
Sue the Feds? Sue the Constitution framers?? Sue King George III ??? Sue King James II ??? Sue Ángela ?? (Ángela ?)
My vote is to sue Rupert Murdoch, whose propaganda has led to the sort of “thinking” (see OP) which has made America laughingstock to the world.
I’ll hazard a guess that while politicians get mileage from saying they want to crack down on illegals, they’re rather less keen to allocate the necessary funding to do so, including building the hundreds (if not thousands) of new prisons and detention facilities to try to hold hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people whose main reason for being in the U.S. is that Americans are willing (indeed, eager) to hire them.
At the risk of oversimplifying, 42 US § 1983 provides that the federal government can be sued for violating someone’s civil rights. If the Tuskagee experiment happened today, I suspect that someone could sue under that law.
Needless to say, though, that involves the government’s action directly injuring someone, as opposed to the OP’s scenario in which the purportedly tortious conduct is the inaction of enforcing immigration laws against a non-party to the suit.
To answer a few of you: I am not advocating that the government be responsible every time some little thing goes wrong. No. But I do think that one of the primary functions of the government is to protect its citizens. And when a known threat is not handled properly (the escapee convict is a good example) and bad stuff happens, why should the government not be responsible? They failed with the duty that they were given the authority and tools to do. The escapee convict is a cleaner example than the one in the OP.
Bricker, I accept your opinion on the law. But let me present this for your opinion: let’s say I’m walking dow the steps outside a courtroom and fall. I’d assume that as long as the stairs were in good repair, the fault is mine. But lets say that there is a big chunk missing from the stairs, and I fall because of it, does that change things. And let’s then also say that there is a chunk missing from the stairs, and the building management knew about it and was supposed to fix it, or at least cordon it off until it was fixed, but didn’t, does that change things.
I’ll give another example, that might be different. Let’s say that people have fallen on the long rise of steps, so the building management install handrails for people to use. I use that handrail, to catch myself, and it comes loose and a fall badly, does that change things as far as the ability to sue? In my mind (non-lawyer) it seems that if the government takes steps to ensure our safety, and we depend on them, and they fail or are negligent in some way, that they should be held accountable.
Does that make sense? Or is Sovereign Immunity so sweeping as to protect from them from even what I described?
I think the part I’m missing is how this guy was a “known threat”? The article you linked to didn’t mention any violent crimes at the time of his deportation order.
If you think merely being an illegal immigrant is sufficiently probable cause that an individual is going to kill someone that the government should be held liable, I don’t even know where to begin with that. By that logic, we should immediately lock up every employer who entices these would-be murderers to enter our country and kill people.
We have immigration laws that are not only ignored by the Federal Government, any attempt to enforce them by State governments are met with Federal litigation.
Since it is the function of a government to enforce it’s own laws I’d say a lawsuit is warranted.
You’re right. I think the case in my OP is not the strongest for what I suggest, for the very reason you’ve raised. To understand what the law is I crafted the scenarios on the courtroom steps. I’d like to see Bricker or another lawyer explain if/how the concept of sovereign immunity applies in those instances.
So should I sue my city for failing to catch enough drug dealers? They drive down the value of property, and I pay more in taxes because criminals don’t file honest 1040s. If the purpose of government is to enforce laws, I don’t think my police department is doing it enough, so I’m being harmed, right? How much do you think I should ask for if I want to settle for a reasonable amount?
Also, I want to sue my college because even though I make a nice salary, Harvard graduates probably earn more than my college’s grads. The purpose of college is to give someone enough education to have a good career, and I don’t think they have lived up to their end of the bargain. They owe me.
If your city’s policy is to ignore it’s own laws, yes. You are the one paying the taxes for services rendered, not the criminal.
I pay all kinds of service fees such as water and sewer, and flood protection. If the city doesn’t pick up my trash or fix the sewer lines you can be darn sure I will sue.
My grandparents came to this country legally. They respected the laws as it applied to their citizenship.
Great. So any time there is a crime, there is a lawsuit against the government for not stopping it. Who says it is the liberals who are in the pocket of trial attorneys?
But the federal government doesn’t ignore immigration laws. It actually spends billions of dollars every year enforcing them (not that it actually matters for the purposes of the frivolous lawsuit proposed in the OP).
The Federal government is suing Arizona over it.
That’s my whole problem with the whole immigration law scheme. The law doesn’t match the policy, which doesn’t match what actually happens. If we aren’t going to enforce the law, then change it. If we are, then do it.
Our enforcement efforts, little that they are, are wholly misguided. One look at me and hear one sentence from me and you know that I am a citizen. I still have to produce 2 different documents or a passport in order to work at a job. This paperwork scheme is costly and creates a new bureaucracy.
At the same time, there are 20 illegal immigrants loitering outside of Home Depot waiting for cash day labor.
What’s the point of #1 if you stand by and watch while #2 goes on in front of your face?
You are perfectly free to work day labor if you want to.
I have a friend who died from choking at a restaurant. Tragically, Juan Gozales, a busboy trained in the Heimlich maneuver had been arrested and deported the day before and was unable to save my friend. I am trying to find a lawyer to help the widow sue the INS as well as the Tea Party for aiding and abetting.
Did the Tea Party secure his illegal job for him? I don’t understand your post.
No, they pushed for deportation of an undocumented immigrant worker who could have saved my friends life.
But there is also the case of Raphael Rodriguez, a future research scientist who would have discovered a cure for cancer. He was sent back home and the school in his impoverished village does not have enough books in order for him to develop his full potential.