It may be smarmy and arrogant to knock on your door, but in the absence of prior constructive notice (like a sign for example) it is also lawful.
It sucks when people are persistent or rude—and it is rude to ignore your ‘daysleeper’ sign. It appears thay your rights weren’t being respected.
But you have remedies. You can change that sign to say “No JWs/ No LDS” And, you can call the police if they ignore that notice. They may be charged with trespass. Or, you can tell them that you wish not to be called upon any longer. I don’t know about LDS, but the JWs would endeavor to respect your wishes.
But when they’re standing at your front door, your remedy is quite limited—probably limited to telling them to leave. (and as noted, as far as JWs are concerned you can simply give them notice that you don’t want to be called again, at all)
But you cannot threaten them, not harm them. If you do, it will be you [rightfully] going to jail.
The notion that our government would regulate the behavior of missionaries outside the USA is simply beyond the pale.
I wonder how they’d feel if religious groups showed up at the kingdom hall and told them they really need to convert to muslim or judaeism or what have you. Maybe someone needs to tell them THEY have it all wrong and the “other” way is the better way.
The height of arrogance. They really need to get a secular clue.
The JWs are the ones that fought the legal battles that established the rights of those other religious groups to call on the JWs to ‘convert’ to Islam or Judaism.
[Generally] If an individual JW answers his door and finds a Muslim or LDS he would politely inform tham that he was JW and that he was not interested in becoming a Muslim of Mormon. The JW may be amenable to a discussion about the bible, but not as a debate or an argument. He would be polite. If the person at the door was rude or overly persistent the JW would simply ask them to leave and close the door if necessary. He might call the police if it was warranted. In any event he would not be abusive or threatening. He would be respectful.
How hard is that? These threads seem to get people frothing at the mouth over something that is easy to remedy.
If the people showed up at a Kingdom Hall (during a meeting) they would be told politely that it is/was not an appropriate time to discuss that topic, but that arrangements could be made to meet if the group wanted more information about what JWs believe. They would be invited to sit in on the meeting and observe if they wished, but they would not be allowed to disrupt the meeting. If they did, they would be asked to leave, and if they refused the police would be called. But at no point would they be violent, abusive or threatening.
How hard is that?
If you don’t like the JWs coming to your door, just calmly tell them that; and tell then you wish not to be called on again.
It’s easier to write that on a messageboard than to actually tell people to their faces that you don’t want them coming around. Nobody wants to have to tell anyone that.
(bolding mine) Maybe you don’t get it. The group calling on the JWs doesn’t want to find out more about what JWs believe. They want to convert them. How did you manage to turn this into a “muslims or jews wanting to learn about JWs?”
How hard is that? How hard is it for the JWs to worship the way they want without recruiting people in their own homes? How hard is it to refrain from annoying the rest of the neighbohood? It’s called MANNERS.
I’d love to know what the statistics are as far as door-to-door conversions goes. I’ve never met anyone who converted based on a visit from the Fuller God Salesman.
I’m in agreement with A. R. Cane and others. Generally, I’m not rude to these people when I encounter them, but I would say I’m not polite either. Unwanted visitors aren’t owed any courtesy in my book. Maybe it’s my Northeastern heritage, but I have no problem giving a curt “No thanks” or “Not interested,” just like I have no problem hanging up on telemarketers. I can hardly imagine inviting some stranger into the house because it would be rude to do otherwise. Sheesh, if it’s hot, they should have thought to bring a canteen or something along with them.
I also dislike the implication that I have somehow come to the wrong decision or beliefs about basic questions about life and whatever else might be. You certainly know no better than I do, and certainly not enough to presume to be expert enough to come and blaze me with nonsense at 6:00 a.m. or 8:00 or whenever you elect to harrass me.
I’ve told my anecdote about one of them who cornered me on the light rail transit before. Ultimately, I think there’s just something a little off, cognitively, with people who are such zealots.
My favorite thing to do when religious nuts come to my door is to let them in if they ask. Then I ask if I may make myself comfortable, when they say yes I slowly start removeing my clothes one piece at a time. Never got all the way to my skivies before they left…
raindog is simply trying to undermine the argument that it is rude to awaken people on a Saturday morning by reframing “early” as “offensively early.” I’m just surprised he didn’t make his argument even easier by throwing 5:00 a.m. out there. If you knock on my door at 9:00 on a Saturday morning, I’ll be just about as offended, although I’ll probably have greater control of my faculties so that my insults will be more clear and humorous. At 6:00 a.m., you’re just going to get the violence and family-relations aspersion material.
An Explicit accusation? Can we start the English lesson right there please?
Well…I know because I’ve seen post after post after post after post after post in these threads that share in common a complete exaggeration at best, and complete fabrication at worst.
But…I also know a little about the JW process, and it is extremely standarized, virtually all over the USA. (I’m assuming you’re in the USA) I would imagine it is similar all over the globe; certainly in the US however, it is a pretty standard affair.
Out of respect for the homeowner (who will likely be asleep at 6:00 a.m.) and for their own personal safety, the JWs would never be knocking at your door at 6:00 a.m. Never. Heck, at 6 am even the JWs are asleep!
I don’t need proof—I know better. To quote Don Henley, “I might be wrong, but I’m not.”
I didn’t say you weren’t telling the truth. I’m saying you got it wrong. Only you know if you were exaggerating as to the time.
The substance of the cases cited by the raindog weren’t about property rights per se, but about the right of religious solicitors to practice their avocation freely, without harassment or outright prohibition from local governments. The courts held not that individuals don’t have the right not to allow them onto their premises, but that governments do not have the right to control or ban their activities.
Truthfully, I’d be happy if these people left me alone altogether. Fortunately, last week’s visit was the first (and only) visit we’ve gotten since we’ve lived here. Unless you count the “welcome” bag with kitchen towels and religious pamphlets when we first moved in. That was a bit odd.
Maybe they thought you all were “unclean” sinners. Or, they didn’t want you to have a dirty kitchen in case Jesus came back before you got all unpacked.
There’s only one problem: Miller said it was 6:00 a.m., not me. Reread the thread. Six o’clock is offensively early. And it’s just not true.
I think it is rude to intentionally wake someone on a Saturday morning if there is a reasonable expectation that they’re asleep.
At 6:00 a.m. there is a high probability that most people are asleep. (even the JWs incidentally) It would indeed be rude and highly inconsiderate to be knocking on doors at 6:00 a.m.–no matter who you are. JWs are aware of that—and for that reason are never* out knocking on doors at that hour.
At 9:20** a.m. there is still some chance that any given homeowner is asleep. However the percentage is substantially less, and in fact most people are awake. (We’re talking 3 hours and 20 minutes later!)
Even then, JWs keep information on 2 types of homeowners: 1) Do Not Call and 2) Daysleeper. When JWs meet in the morning*** those addresses that have either items 1 or 2 are noted by everyone going out and every effort is made to respect them. This is standard practice.
Will some people still be awaken by JWs on a Saturday morning? Yep. Yet there is a fundamental difference between being awaken at 9:45 a.m. and 6:00 a.m.
But the 6:00 a.m. time makes for such a better story!
This pure back slapping rubbish that is so common here about JWs & LDS etc knocking on doors at 6, 7 & 8 a.m. is just that: rubbish.
(*Never is a strong word, huh? I don’t use it blithely. Not only is the JW process standard virtually everywhere, but they are sensitive to both common courtesy and their own safety. They would never be knocking on your door at 6:00 a.m. Crow all you want about the raindog’s clairvoyance, but to buy that story you’ll need to suspend your own disbelief and simple common sense)
(**All over the country, congregations meet every single morning for the public ministry. Most congregations meet at 9:30 a.m; and some at 9:00 a.m. This meeting takes between 15 and 20 minutes and several more minutes to drive to the area in which they will be working. That typically means that the first house of the day is around 9:20 a.m. at the earliest, and 9:50 a.m. for the congregations that meet at 9:30 a.m. )
***In some large urban areas, some JWs go out in the public ministry in subways, bus stops, street corners etc—that would NOT include residential areas. That would start between 7 and 7:30 a.m.)
When I was in college we lived in a heavily LDS area in Oregon. There wasn’t much in the way of door to door conversion attempts, however, there were groups of younger girls that used to come about on Saturday or Sunday mornings to ask if we had any cans or bottles we could give them (Oregon is a deposit/return state). We quickly learned that on mornings following parties that you could stagger up to the door, let them in and tell them “take any empty cans or bottles that you can find”, stagger back off to bed, and they would CLEAN UP THE ENTIRE HOUSE. Seriously. For what amounted to maybe $20 to $40 dollars in returnable containers we have our house back to normal in time to watch cartoons! This was genius. Personally I don’t care if they were using the money to build missiles to shoot at my grandmothers house, this was truly a miracle. They got into the habit of coming every Saturday and Sunday for at least two years.
