The Jesus is black portion
the 13th apostle…
and the use of IDEAS rather than a beleif structure.
If you haven’t seen it I don’t think you should bother until there are a few posts.
I think that Jesus was a white guy, I also beleive there were only 12 apostles.
And… finally…
I think having a beleif structure is horrible. You can’t change a beleif. You can’t just get a beleif, they have to be taught to you conditioned. You can change ideas, ideas are wonderful… and empowering.
religion is just a mess. God exists… and so does evolution. Prove me wrong!!
Care to cite this?
(not the 12 apostles, of course, but rather the “jesus was white” bit.)
On the whole I thought that Kevin Smith just overreached himself with Dogma, but then again I never really liked much he’s done since Clerks(which was brilliant).
As far as black Jesus and the 13th apostle, the whole thing about these plot points in the movie was that they’d been suppressed and eliminated from the teachings of the Church, therefore there’s no evidence supporting either today. And there ISN’T any evidence supporting either today, so it’s sort of silly to debate about it.
Personally, I like the concept of ideas over beliefs. Although, I think humans are generally much too inclined to hear about something they like the sound of and cling to it as an immutable fact. We naturally gravitate towards believing things powerfully.
I’d also like to ask politely (through gritted teeth) for the OP’er to change their sig so it’s no longer advertising that “neato quiz.” There’s very little that’s “neato” about browser windows endlessly spawning themselves. Said OP’er might also want to consider re-registering under a different username, leaving their current one to die without too many people attacking him for it.
I saw the movie this weekend on video. I think it was entertaining. Cute cast. As far as Jesus being black, who cares? A 13th apostle, everyone knows that was Mary Magdalene. And the “idea” vs. “belief”, I absolutely love it! I really didn’t find the movie that controversial or even that clever.
Needs2know
Ideas over beliefs is a pretty good description of my religious system. This concept is one of the reasons I liked the movie, but it’s also possible I liked it for the spectacle of Jay and Silent Bob constantly begging for sex. Ahem…
Given a general lack of emperical evidence that one should, there’s little reason to believe completely in anything.
Even good vs. evil is merely a concept invented by man - I believe it’s a good idea to be good, for example, and that I should strive towards postitive outcomes in life, but if I found solid reasoning that I should be evil, why not change?
I don’t expect to find such evidence - it would be a long shot, certainly - but I like to keep my mind open.
That’s the problem that I run into with religion - it requires rigid belief in things that no one should even start deciding for themselves without 30 years of study - and likely not even then. I’ve meant many open-minded churchgoers, certainly, but how they keep their ‘belief’ system together with their ‘idea’ system requires too many mental acrobatics for me.
It’s easy for the folks in Dogma to get a ‘good idea’ going - they saw God in person! Us mere mortals generally don’t get that kind of personal attention.
But hey, even if I did see and speak to God, I would remain skeptical, having read too much sci-fi. Maybe it’s just a really powerful alien. Let’s test that omnipotence, buddy…
It’s a JOKE. C’mon, God as a woman who can’t talk directly to people but has a Mouth? … that’s right out of Tolkein, the Mouth of Sauron. Gimme a break. Highly entertaining movie, IMHO, but let’s not read theology or history from it.
The concept of the film was just dandy.
Black Jesus…sure why not? It’s well known that the devil is a female, ( Could there be any other explaination?)
so why not a black son of god?
Politics and religion go hand in hand. Who knows what the church is keeping from its members?
I thought the movie was fabulous. Very entertaining.
Regards, Graeme
**The Jesus is black portion
the 13th apostle…
and the use of IDEAS rather than a beleif structure.
I think that Jesus was a white guy,** I also beleive there were only 12 apostles.
And… finally…
I think having a beleif structure is horrible. You can’t change a beleif. …religion is just a mess. God exists… and so does evolution. Prove me wrong!!
barton Black Jesus…sure why not? **It’s well known that the devil is a female, ( Could there be any other explaination?) **…
Given a general lack of emperical evidence that one should, there’s little reason to believe completely in anything.
Bits & Pieces in response …
I give it a six (6) out of Ten (10)
Somewhat orginal but way too predictable LOKI / Bartby avenging angle bit who at the end changes while the messengers goes off the deep end then reverts back…
Silent Bob speaking on the train then again being silent
Bethany seemingly being killed / sacrificed then restored to life pregant … a bit to much sillines at the end … overall better than average but still rental not a theater grade …
I always believed had the IDEA that God was really female and the Devil / Satan was Male
**Jesus was a Hebrew of the ancient world ** who probablly did not resemble the European version of Isareli we see today…
I agree Mary Magdalene was the 13th disciple…
I hold that ideas and beliefs are part of the same spectrum of thought one is just more central to your ego / identity thus more deeply held … but ideas are definately influnced by and in turn influence any belief ** obviously Both can be changed