I know a self-proclaimed feminist who has breast implants. Is she a hypocrite?

[Marley23]

@gooti

I think the problem mouthbreather (and I) have with this is that the round-breasted, ultra-feminine female form (i.e. Barbie dolls, Pamela Anderson, etc.) is a cultural and societal ideal perpetuated mostly by men through the media.

But how do you know she’s “trying to conform to a patriarchal ideal” or some such instead of just thinking about herself?

[don_t_ask]

Do they look real? I guesss I mean do they feel real?

[gooti]

@Marley23

But how do you know she’s “trying to conform to a patriarchal ideal” or some such instead of just thinking about herself?

I know her fairly well myself and, as far as I know, she didn’t do it because she wanted to stand in the mirror and admire her breasts all day.

IMO, the perception of being attractive is something that is largely defined outside of the self. Why enhance your body if there’s no one to appreciate it. Even if she did “do it for herself,” the idea that something was wrong with her in the first place had to come from somewhere (unless she has body dismorphic disorder, which I doubt).

My point is, people are basically taught from birth what’s “ugly” and what’s “pretty.” It’s all subjective, mind you, but there are many variables that influence the way we think about things - including societal norms that we all buy into to a certain extent.

[Marley23]

@gooti

IMO, the perception of being attractive is something that is largely defined outside of the self. Why enhance your body if there’s no one to appreciate it.

Because she might be appreciating it. Being attractive isn’t only about other people, or at least it doesn’t have to be. I’m not saying she’ll stare at herself all day. The issue is her confidence and feeling that she looks good. To some degree I do think this is circular, so maybe we’re wasting our time here.

My point is, people are basically taught from birth what’s “ugly” and what’s “pretty.” It’s all subjective, mind you, but there are many variables that influence the way we think about things - including societal norms that we all buy into to a certain extent.

Actually there have been some studies done about this, and our standards of beauty are not all learned.

[Dung_Beetle]

@mouthbreather

I guess I started this thread the wrong way – this isn’t so much specifically about the woman I know, I am more wondering what people thought about ideas of feminism and plastic surgery. I do understand the whole side of “it’s your body, you choose” and 'make yourself feel better". But, has the school of thought that says “You are buying into the patriarchal ideal of beauty and demeaning yourself” gone away on this issue?

May be creeping into GD territory here…

I feel ya, mouthbreather. I’ve struggled with this idea myself. I’ve been considering implants for years, but I can’t quite reconcile the thought of doing such a drastic thing to my body just because it doesn’t fit into current standards of beauty. There’s no doubt it would make me happy, and I could say I was doing it for myself, but frankly, if I were to get an augmentation and then everyone on the planet were to keel over and die except me, I’d look down and say, “Damn! These things are in my way and they make my back hurt!”

[gooti]

@Marley23

Because she might be appreciating it. Being attractive isn’t only about other people, or at least it doesn’t have to be. I’m not saying she’ll stare at herself all day. The issue is her confidence and feeling that she looks good. To some degree I do think this is circular, so maybe we’re wasting our time here.

No, it doesn’t have to be…but, IMO, most of the time it is.

Actually there have been some studies done about this, and our standards of beauty are not all learned.

I’m familiar with those studies and you’re correct. The basic human perception of what is beautiful is innate to some degree in regards to symmetry of the face & body, etc. But you can’t deny that a good percentage of what people deem attractive is related to the society and culture in which they spend most of their lives.