Based on what Carlin says on his You Are All Diseased CD, I have to think that Carlin really doesn’t care what your religious beliefs are, just so long as you’ve made a well reasoned decision as to why you hold them.
He attacks Christianity because its the dominate religion in America and the one that’s constantly thrust in our faces. Were Carlin living in Israel, he’d probably be going after Judaism.
That being said, I’ve got to say he is probably one of the funniest men alive today and the crankier he is, the funnier he is!
If anyone is interested, Carlin re-asserted this in a radio interview with Radio Nation. You can listen to a streaming RealAudio version here.
And I agree with him on this 100%. As a Jew, I could no sooner ignore the cultural and ethnic aspects of this, even though I’ve rejected certain of the religious aspects. It’s not nice to attack me because I’m Jewish, just as it’s not nice to attack stuffinb or Biggirl because they’re black or gobear or Esprix or matt_mcl because they’re gay. Certain aspects of these are funny, however, and comedians have done a good job of exploiting these in their acts. A good comedian can take a singular experience and make it universal.
David B The idea that because something changes the person changing has a choice in the matter is also a logical fallacy. Could you choose to believe in god?
Wouldn’t you say that a parsons religion is a part of who or what they are?
Yes, I could, if I had the proper evidence. Similarly, people make the decision to believe or not believe everyday, or to switch from one belief to another. Etc. Yes, they have a choice in the matter.
Well, a parson’s religion certainly is! Yes, a person’s religion is as well. So what? I’m an engineer and a writer – they are part of what I am. But I could choose to change jobs.
I have to disagree.Changing your beliefs (or more likely which religion you profess-not the same thing) doesn’t mean a choice is involved.To use a non-religious example, I believe my husband is not cheating on me.It is possible that given sufficient evidence,my belief will change, and I will then believe he is cheating on me.In neither case does it make sense to say I chose my belief.I just have the belief,from whatever combination of my culture (including family),my personality and the evidence it came from
Choosing to be an official member of a particular religion,or practicing that religion is another story. I either believe or don’t believe Lutheran doctrine,for example, but whether or not I join a Lutheran church or practice that religion is a choice.
That’s not what she said. I saw that crazy interview. According to her she’s no longer insane, homosexual, or talking to God (not that those things are connected anyhow.)
I still maintain that the whole genetic-gay debate can be resolved by the theory that genetically we are all bisexual - but that environment in development shapes us to go down one path or the other. This makes more sense to me than either alternative - the idea that environment can change one’s sexuality from hetero to homo or vice versa (which seems silly) or the idea that there is a genetic predisposition to find a particular gender sexually desirable.
The reason that I have problems with the latter is that I’m not sure what, genetically, it really means to be attracted to “women” or “men”. Certainly I am not attracted to all women - not by a long shot. Should I infer from this that I am genetically predisposed to a type of woman? But the types of women I’m attracted to are rather diverse. And with the increasing androgenisation of society, the boundaries of what just gender attraction really would mean from a genetic standpoint are being pushed more and more.
Or, more likely, I’m talking out of my arse about a subject of which I know next to nothing. Your choice.
I know what you mean, and I agree. I wasn’t speaking from the bigot’s perspective, but from the perspective of the person who changes their culture
Anne Heche, and now Michael Jackson. For the love of God man, lock this thread!
Seriously. Yes and no. A balck person can abandon black culture, and be culturally white. Granted he will still have a problem with bigots, but you know what? I think they’re a small minority. My buddy the editor gets along fine here in very white Central PA.
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I made a fallacy? Moi?
Well, I’m thinking (to be scientific) of that Kinsey Scale thingy. On one extreme you have pure homosexuals, on the other, pure heterosexuals. In the middle you have lots of people with varying degrees of both. If you accept the Kinsey scale as science it seems reasonable to suggest that peer pressure would have a strong effect on which way those people go. As a counter example, quite a few gay people reject their gayness and live as heterosexual before they “come out.” Some of them never do.
About friggin’ time, eh?
It varies. In my experience, and I’m by no means an expert, the women’s exposure as children and adolescents is extremely limited. Once they’re married and have kids, you usually see more of them, and they’ll interact some.
You’re probably right, but that’s merely a statement of simple opinion and hence probably a logical fallacy though, right?
Just because it’s a logical fallacy doesn’t make it wrong though. We sometimes forget that.
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I notice you dropped reference to the Muslim woman in your example. I’ll take that as a concession on that point.
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Why? We were in agreement. I was thinking of Muslim women in Muslim countries. I will concede that I should have been more specific. You’re clarification was accurate, so I saw no need to revisit the issue.
Nice to see you back. Sorry I missed that post of yours. Better late than never, though.
What does George Carlin have to be bitter and spiteful about? His career has gone better than he could have imagined and he has a wonderful love interest in his life. Maybe you just have a problem that much of what he says is true. Like the fact that this country performed a Genocide on the Native Americans of this country. To this day I meet people who are uncomfortable confronting this truth. People often lash out at individuals for speaking the truth. They refer to them as pessimist or as a bitter,spiteful,resentful,vile old man.
I don’t agree with everything Carlin says and as with any comedian he can go too far. However, mixed in all of this is some very insighful and accurate observations about our world. I think you would be better served in trying to get something of value out of the material rather than personally attacking Carlin.
Just one more thing. I have seen Carlin live and people were laughing hysterically. On that point you really have no idea what you are talking about.
It’s been a loooong time since George Carlin had anything new or funny to say. That’s not to say he doesn’t still have rabid fans- he does. But Carlin stopped challenging his audience ages ago. Today, he has a select audience of people who agree with everything he says, and he tells THAT chosen audience EXACTLY what it wants to hear.
Does it take courage for Jerry Falwell to stand up in front of 20,000 fundamentalist Christians and rant against abortion? Does it take courage for Charlton Heston to stand up at an NRA convention and ridicule gun-control advocates?
OF COURSE NOT! It’s very easy to get up in front of a large group that shares your prejudices, to ridicule the people that group hates, and to get loud whoops of approval.
I have NO talent as a standup comic at all. But suppose I went up in front of the Republican convention and did a 'conservative standup act…"
“Hey, how about those liberals… they think it’s great to kill babies in the womb, but heck, try to kill a baby seal, and watch them start blubbering!”
Is that a funny joke? An original joke? An insightful joke? No, on all 3 counts. But I guarantee, if I told that joke before a large, conservative crowd, they’d all laugh, and they’d all roar their approval.
Well, that’s EXACTLY the boat George Carlin is in. Funny? Not a bit. Original? Not in 20 years or more. But I give him this: he’s VERY good at pandering to his chosen audience. He’s a lot like Andrew Dice Clay, in that regard. Boring, unoriginal, but very loud, and very good at figuring out what the people who worship him want to hear.
Yes, a person’s religion is as well. So what? I’m an engineer and a writer – they are part of what I am. But I could choose to change jobs.