I love RTA for this!

The BBQ Pit
1

In This thread he says:

And I’m just happy to know I’m not alone, that I am not the only one who sees clearly what is going on. This is a great relief to me, as you have no idea the crushing burden I’ve labored under up to now. :smiley:

And this is in the Pit for what it says about the GOP, not what I’m saying about RTA, and experience tells me that if I say something this forcefully negative about the GOP, folks will get a little, ummm, hot under the collar. So even though I’m not saying it, I’m just emphasizing it, I figured it would be better off here.

stoid

2

What I like about RTA is how he is so on top of the “shadow Corporate Christian dictatorship” that is crushing our helpless citizenry beneath its fascist bootheel! Wake up, America!

:rolleyes:

3

The GOP is evil? Half the voters in this country are motivated by nothing other than pure malice? Their blackened hearts want to inflict pain on the rest of America.

Can you liberals make up your minds. We’ve had one thread devoted to the proposition that Democrats merely dislike Republicans, while Republicans hate Democrats. I think I’ve found two counter examples to that idea. Incedentally, it’s not the fact that you hate the GOP that I object to as much as the fact that you deny that you are anything less than completely rational in your objection to everything conservative, from Cheney’s status as a resident of Wyoming to Karen Hughes appearance.

Frankly, statements such as the GOP being evil are simply stupid. Not because the GOP is correct and saintly, but because you assume the motivations of a hundred million other people. You can’t possibly know such things, and have decided that someone’s political opinions are a clear indicator of their very morality. I wouldn’t even respond to this sort of shit, except that I’m a libertarian so you haven’t called me evil yet.

4

What I want to know…where were all you rabid anti-Bush people before the election? Sure, you all were tepidly supporting Gore or Nader. But nobody was talking about how Bush was really a closet Adolf Hitler.

Face facts. Bush is the fucking president. You can whine, you can cry, you can pee your pants all you want, but that’s the fact.

I’ve never ever seen such hate, such truly stupid bizarre crap, coming from you paranoid idiots. Remember how dumb the republicans looked every time they whined and cried about how evil/liberal Clinton was? Do you remember how you wanted them to grow up or shut up? That is exactly how you all look right now, except that Bush hasn’t even been sworn in. Um, don’t you think that screaming and crying is just going to make the average voter support Bush against the crazies? Cause that’s what happened for Clinton. Every time the Republicans pulled some stupid stunt, it backfired. And every time you all pull some stupid stunt against Bush it will backfire against you.

Welcome to the politics of personal destruction. Oh, wait, didn’t you all say that was bad last time? Assholes.

5

I sure was!

Paranoid implies irrational fear. I think our fear is perfectly rational, starting with the “election” in Florida.

Well, yeah, because Clinton wasn’t evil.

Why would it? Can’t they think for themselves and choose a candidate because they like or dislike his or her policies and governance?

Well, I am not capable of pulling any stunts, wise or foolish, against Bush or any other politician. I am merely a citizen.

However, I’m sure the Dems will have much more substantive issues to go ofter Bush on than the GOP had against Clinton. And the anger towards Bush starts from a completely legitimate place: this election. What was the basis for the opening anger at Clinton? His sax playing? And what did years of hassles and millions of dollars prove in the end about him in terms of being a bad guy? That he got hummers in the White House and lied about it. I’m losing sleep.

When it came down to his performance as *president * , ya know, doing * the job * - he had overwhelming approval. I don’t think Bush will. And therein lies the BIG difference.

stoid

6

Once more, with feeling: I do not consider the average voter part of “The GOP” . They might be a “GOP voter”, though.

I do not consider myself a “Democrat” when I refer to “The Democrats”. I’m a Democrat in the sense that I support them and I tend to vote for them, but I am not of the party, I have no place, power or function in the Democratic party. When I say “The Democrats”, I am referring to politicians and party functionaries. The people who make the decisions and represent the party to the people.

And this oughta be the last time I have to explain this. Please. Or maybe I’ll just make a macro…

stoid

7

What’s to hate about Bush for the election? I’ll accept that the only reason he is President is because the laws that existed before the election were insufficient to most accurately determine the intent of the voters. However, while Democrats have every right to be upset about this, they should accept that we cannot rewrite election laws after the election.

I don’t see any substantive issues where the criticism of Bush is any more valid than that against Clinton. Clinton, by the way, had low approval ratings for much of his first term. Being the subject of conservative hatred and attacks seemed to have helped his approval rating. It is not unlikely to expect that Bush might be helped by the same effect.

8

Sorry I don’t keep track of what you use the term to mean. I didn’t realize that I was supposed to remember your definition of “The GOP” for use when responding to you. For future reference, are there any other terms that you use to mean things that I might not expect? For example, what exactly do you mean by evil?

9

:rolleyes:

Huh? “Well, conservative Republicans hate Clinton, therefore I approve of him!”

Right.

I look forward to more of your creative and strange interpretations of reality.

stoid

10

e·vil (vl)
adj. e·vil·er, e·vil·est.

  1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
  2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.
  3. Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.
  4. Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation.
  5. Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper.
11

The attacks on Clinton gained him sympathy, not necessarily approval. The Republicans looked stupid and wrong for pillorying him over what he does in his spare time. This isn’t exactly my on personal theory, it has been noted in the media several times. Americans tend to sympathize with an underdog.

I know you have your own conspiracy theories of the election, but what did Bush do that was a true injustice? And don’t give me any crap involving his brother being governor unless you can give me evidence of anything he’s actually done. There is no reason for people to hate Bush over the election, and most people don’t.

So which definition of evil does the GOP fall under? I suppose I can debate the point if I know what exactly you’re claiming, even if I think it is a preposterous and irrational assertion.

12

So, Stoidela is one of the “anti-coup” people. Yes, the mess that we saw last month was a violent right-wing takeover of america by a fascist dictator. Uh-huh. Look, it is perfectly possible for you to dislike Bush, and think that he’ll make a terrible president.

But this stuff is just silly. He hasn’t even been sworn in, and you are convinced that he’s a disaster. Well, he may very well be a disaster, it certainly wouldn’t surprise me if he isn’t a good president. But this is more. It’s not just that you think he’ll be a bad president. You are convinced that he is evil, and is purposefully trying to ruin the country, and in fact this is the first step to dictatorship. Uh-huh.

Bush won the election. If you don’t like what happened, next time get more people to vote for the other guy. But in my view the democratic process is more important than one election. If you think this means that from now on republicans will try to steal every election in the country, I might point out that this can only happen if the votes are very very close and the laws and the courts go along. If Gore had had only 10,000 more votes in Florida, this couldn’t have happened. Bush didn’t stage a coup.

And Stoidela, surely you aren’t ignorant of the fact that the impeachment solidified support for Clinton. It wasn’t that people thought Clinton was great, it was that they thought the impeachment was over the line. Ergo, support for Clinton. Um, this only happened a year or so ago, you should remember how it blew up in the Republican’s face, right?

I’m saying that partisan calls to oppose Bush on everything are going to backfire on the Democrats and people like you. If the public thinks that you aren’t being fair, they’ll support Bush. Simple PR. Now, if the public thinks that your hysterical ranting and raving IS fair, then of course it works. So, your job is to only oppose Bush when opposing him will accomplish something, right? Otherwise, it will be counterproductive, right?

If you oppose a policy, if you oppose a nomination it is of course fair to fight against it. But this “Bush is EVIL” crap just makes you and your kind look stupid.

13

“Evil?”

Be very careful when you use that word, Stoidela. Something evil is something that needs to be killed.

Do you want to kill the Republicans?

Do you want the Republicans to kill the Democrats?

14

Tell ya what, Lemur, how about I just sit back and read, while you write up all of “my” arguments and positions, and then you can shoot them all down. You are already doing it, it’s just a matter of us agreeing on it. Most of yoru response is filled with projections, assumptions, suppositions, and miscellaneous other things that have nuthin’ to do with anything I said.

Such as:

I think Bush is the puppet of EVIL people. I have the luxury of being able to speak and act in my tiny way on this belief because I am nobody and I don’t have to worry about how I “sound” to anyone.

I truly believe that the GOP is evil. I don’t think they necessarily think of themselves that way, they don’t wake up in the morning and say: “I’m going to go do evil today!”, but the net effect of their policies and attitudes is evil.

My god, man, isn’t it as plain as James Baker’s face?

** Alessan ** No, something that is evil is something that needs to be ** stopped **. Yes, I would like the Republicans stopped.

15

You do not seem to be following…

What precisely makes them evil?

16

Stoidela, why don’t you just call Clinton give him a blow job and maybe that will relieve some of your anger. Clinton is a user plain and simple. It is terrible how he brought such shame on the Democrats. Not that I give a shit.

17

Wait. Now you say that Bush himself isn’t evil? Didn’t you just agree back there that he was a closet Adolf Hitler? Yes, there it is, back a few posts. And when I compared Bush to Clinton, you chimed in with, “Well, yeah, because Clinton wasn’t evil.”

Now, I agree that is somewhat ambiguous. But surely you can see that a reasonable reading of that statement is “The difference between Clinton and Bush is that Clinton isn’t evil.” Ergo, Bush is evil.

Now, about this:

Well, I disagree. People who care about political events have a power way out of proportion to people who don’t care. After all, you talk to people, you tell them your opinions on politics, and if they think you’re right they’ll vote the way you advise. When you go around implying that Bush is evil/controlled by evil, I kind of feel that you do have to worry about how you sound to your audience, namely those of us here at SDMB.

You can’t use the excuse that your words are meaningless. If you don’t take us here at SDMB seriously, then why are you bothering? Or is your point that YOU can speak the truth, while the Democrats can’t? I disagree. If what you say is true, then the Democrats can say it without looking crazy. If what you say is NOT true, then neither you or the Democrats can say it without looking crazy.

AND, about Republicans being evil. Y’know, this is severly hampering your ability to understand current events. It’s kind of like on “Captain Planet”. The guys who created pollution on the show did it because they LIKED pollution. Well, if you believe that people who create pollution only do it because they like it, you will have a very poor idea of how to actually fight pollution.

People don’t drill for oil in ANWR because they are evil, they drill for oil in ANWR because they want to make money. Look, if you believe that people destroy the environment for essentially no reason, then there is no hope. But if you don’t, then you can advocate policies that make it less likely that people who destroy the environment will make money. See the difference?

If you believe your opponents are nazis who oppose you simply out of a twisted desire to do evil, your only response is despair and hate, kind of like how you’ve been acting lately. If you beleive that they are human beings doing what seems best to them, then you can change their perceptions, you can change the ground rules that make their actions seem reasonable.

18

Perhaps more of a ‘GD’ tangent than a pit comment…

but I’m curious about the whole discussion addressed by various posters above about ‘the institution in question’ defined as :

its formal hierarchy (as Stoid bases her beliefs)
vs.
the masses down below that count themselves as members.

In many instances, the “institution”, even though there is an elected/official ‘governance’, IS, essentially, its members. (One obvious one is a church). The “upper echelons” that are clearly designated as leaders are a bottum-up (ok, no jokes here, please) extension/distillation of the beliefs, desires, etc. of the thousands of members at the grassroots level; granted, it’s not always a “one-to-one belief corrsepondence”, but you get the idea. Most folks wouldn’t count themselves, informally or not, as members unless there was at the very least SOME agreement of the underlying philosopy.

This is why I have a hard time condemning 100% a large group (be they Reps, Dems, Greens, welfare reformers, no-nukers, etc) simply because I might disagree with one of the “official” party lines; often, there are numerous contingencies within the group that may have some good ideas. (note that I’m not identifying my political preferences here, but suffice to say that there’s a lot I disagree with in the purported philosophies of all the above). Really, all these opposing forces within forces is the system in action!

So Stoid, I guess my point here is that I see it as somewhat contradictory to say “The GOP is evil” and then "I do not consider the average voter part of “The GOP” . They might be a “GOP voter”, though. "

The former IS the latter, to a very significant degree.

(And by the way, though I hardly have had any occasion to agree with you on these political threads, I seem to remember that you are a Mac user— and so I know IRL we’d get along just peachy)

19

“It doesn’t matter what country they’re from, my head said,
they’re still Americans, they’re what’s in store for us, what we are turning into. They spread like a virus, they get into the cells and the cells change from inside and the ones that have the disease can’t tell the difference… If you look like them and talk like them and think like them then you are them, I was saying, you speak their language, a language is everything you do.” Margaret Atwood, Surfacing.

Of course Republicans are evil. So are democrats, albiet less noxious and less entertaining. Both are subverting our culture.

But dancing with the devil, Republican or Democrat, has its benefits. Once one gets past the gun culture, the violence, the religious fundamentalism, the racism, the lack of compassion, and the rampant paranoia, there is a delightfully kitschy culture to be had.

So let’s all holster our weapons, kneel down together, Republican and Democrat and damn foreigner, hold each other’s hands, and thank God Almighty, ah say praaay to the Lawd Gawwd Alll-MIGH-ty, for bringing the world Roadside America.

20

“If you believe your opponents are Nazis who oppose you simply out of a twisted desire to do evil, your only response is despair and hate, kind of like how you’ve been acting lately. If you believe that they are human beings doing what seems best to them, then you can change their perceptions, you can change the ground rules that make their actions seem reasonable.” Lemming866
This argument is inanely fallacious. The love thy neighbor ethic hijacked by the plutocracy. What is left out is the fact that the Republicans have power to seriously impact our lives. When they abuse this power by say, giving a giant tax break to their wealthy cronies, it takes money out of your pocket, assuming you’re like 95% of the people in this country. Their track record on income distribution, the environment, human rights, their self righteous intrusion into women’s reproductive systems, and the dual standard on controlled substances as a means to wage a very profitable war on the population, adds up to a very slick crypto-fascism. As for the half of the population that voted for him? Hood winked morons. Most people don’t vote based upon qualification or education or anything substantive or concrete. They vote because of the affective experience they get from watching the clown on television. Compassionate conservatism? Come on. Is that like being polite while you give someone the shaft?
Stick to your guns Stoidela.