Honestly, I’m rather confused by the reactions here.
Unless I’m completely misunderstanding the way this works, the Corps is a voluntary organization, correct? And it’s common knowledge that cadets will be treated like this, correct? I mean, if Ghost were going around screaming at random people in his everyday life, that’s one thing. What possible problem could you have with someone freely volunteering to be treated in the manner described in the OP?
I’ve got only one problem with this thread.
The fact that Space Ghost posted it.
It’s one thing to engage in ritualized hazing, within safe boundaries, in order to build team morale. Whether it works or not, it does go on, and is pretty widely accepted.
What bugs me is the fact that Space Ghost enjoyed his intimidation experience so much that he had to crow about it in an MPSIMS thread. Lookee here, I made someone cry!
Time to take a good look at yourself, Space Ghost. There’s something wrong.
Honey, that’s the least of your problems! Your spelling and grammar suck. I have to read everything you write three or four times to even begin to comprehend it.
Were you were so busy being yelled at last year that you failed to make it to your English 101 class?
Exactly.
And that’s the problem with the system.
I have no problem with what the assorted branches of the U.S. military do in Basic. Members of the military need to be able to act like parts of a machine in moments of great stress, and that involves a lot of breaking down of individualism to meld the soldiers, etc. into a unit, to think of themselves first as part of a team. Physically rigorous training, and trained professional hardass DIs yelling in your face at feel-the-saliva distance seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable part of that.
But that was trained professional DIs. Not ‘every sophomore who survived getting hazed himself.’ I think the difference there speaks for itself.
Sounds like me and a bunch of my friends from high school, who are still good friends thirty years later. Only we didn’t have to endure anything but the usual high-school stuff.
I don’t like having to read 60+ posts just to understand what the OP said. Maybe you could try to translate your posts into civilian next time? most of us don’t know what fish are or why they need to be yelled at 
[Well, at least the discussion has become a little more reasonable in here… But really, attacks on people’s grammar? That’s well known as one of the most childish rebukes possible in an internet discussion.]
First off, I’d like to apologize to TexasSpur since the last comment of my previous post was rather rude. I should have just asked for a cite. But I was in a bad mood for other reasons, which is never a good time to post.
I have my own personal views on the practices of the military academies, both good and bad. I think they are less likely to produce an officer ill-prepared for active duty, which can be a problem with ROTC (which is my track). They are also more likely, IMHO, to produce the “Dictator Butter Bars.” But all kinds of officers can come from all commissioning sources, and painting with a broad brush is never fair.
When cadets are training other cadets, you face a greater problem of abuse because the trainers are often only shortly removed from being a trainee. They aren’t professional instructors, and are more apt to go overboard. I was recently involved in a ROTC training environment, and officer supervision and guidance was thorough and constant.
I’ve read through the OP a few times, and it still doesn’t seem like anything too shocking, and not really something that should cause a person to cry. It’s at too harsh a level to be accepted in the programs I was in (prohibitions on swearing and anything that might be belittling), but nothing I wouldn’t expect from an academy/corps environment. Whether that’s a good or bad attitude, well…it’s not how I’d run things, but that’s just me. Now the abuses of training mentioned by TexasSpur are the kinds of things that make my blood boil. Believe me, it bothers military members more than anyone.
The important thing stressed in the program I was recently involved in is that respect remains key throughout. And when it ends, all the cadets are equals. Yes, there is still a chain of command, but our tradition was to wake them up with loud music as usual, but be standing outside their doors in civilian clothes and continually correct them until they used our first names and not Cadet/Rank/Last Name. And then there was breakfast and an ultimate frisbee game.
And any LT who hits active duty without understanding that he must show the utmost respect to the enlisted troops doesn’t deserve his or her bars. And it happens, I’ve heard the stories. Luckily, an NCO usually puts them in their place. Fast.
I would usually agree but in this particular case it’s just adding more confusion to an already convoluted thread.
I had said (I believe in the 2nd reply) that I found it difficult to understand his OP, as have others. He hasn’t made much of an effort to make himself understood, he has only tried to justify why his behavior is “acceptable”.
I feel that I am justified in questioning his poor grammar and spelling, especially in light of his response to Whammo’s strange post:
It implies that he feels he is getting a superior education and his experiences at A&M will take him far in life. I am merely pointing out that doesn’t appear to be the case.
So there! 
SpaceGhost, ever read Ender’s Game?
If not. Read it.
If so. Read it again.
It was merely a comment, and one that came with an apology if it seemed to be nitpicking. Attacking ones ideas by mocking grammar is indeed childish. Commenting that a post is difficult to understand because mistakes are excessive is another matter entirely. You should have considered this prior to making this statement.
A perfect line to sum up this entire thread.
The form of hazing you engaged in was understandable–a military setting, from what I gather.
However, Space Ghost, the pleasure you got from seeing a freshman break down was not understandable at all.
I don’t see how you can gain the respect of these freshmen, or even expect them to work as a team in any way, if you are openly displaying this attitude. They will see–as many of the posters in this thread do–that you are not using the yelling, etc. as a form of training; you are simply using it to get a reaction which you then turn into an “example” to humor yourself.
I doubt anyone who would cry over so little actually freely volunteered. I read a book once about the citadel and the ones in it who broke down were the ones who went there because of tradition or their fathers made them.
The problem with that kind of training is that it is inferior and dying out IMHO. Being an asshole is becoming less of an advantage.
I don’t think there’s anything like this amount of bullying (UK translation of ‘hazing’) in English universities. All that happened was that I got told I must be a first year student - because I was wearing the College scarf.
As for toughness, there was a BBC documentary on the Special Air Service (SAS) training regime a while back. (The SAS are considered the elite unit in the British Army, and maintain a unit at 2 hour readiness for duties like anti-terrorist operations.)
This course involved stuff like crossing 40 miles of unmapped moorland in two days, carrying a 60 lb pack. Of course they were also all expert marksmen and trained to survive behind enemy lines etc.
The instructors explained things in a quiet determined manner. They only shouted when they were encouraging the recruits to special efforts (like the squad taking turns carrying the guy with a sprained ankle for the last 3 miles of the 15 mile run).
There seems to be quite a contrast between these highly trained professionals and the way your academy behaves.
If I was concerned with sentence structure, I would have been a English Major.
If I wanted to debate the Merits of an orginization that, ~gasp~, makes you do push-ups for punishment and involves biting sarcasm, I would have posted in ** Great Debates**.
Clearly, a commentary on my second day as a Pisshead is a bad thing. How foolish of me to think that on a board with Bestiality,Cunnilignus,and, of course,Masturbating at Work, this wouldn’t even raise an eyebrow.
How my thread is offensive and those are not is beyond me.
Feel free to set up a “** Space Ghost** is going to Hell” Thread in the Pit. I acknowledge defeat and will not be responding to this thread anymore.
Sorry Waverly, I was referring more to Sue Dynhm’s post, and I’ll grant her a “fair enough” as well since she could back it up with some reasons.
But if everyone starts critiquing grammar, I’m gonna have to start proofreading my posts.
It’s not about sentence structure, it’s about comprehension.
No, that was informative. I think the objections are to the bullying.
Who said they’re not offensive?
So your ‘tough’ training regime makes you unable to cope with polite criticism* then?
*and sarcasm too
Ok, ok. This thread needs to officially end. Y’all are debating the finer points of grammar on the message board. Last time I checked, grammar has very little to do with the Corps.
Pukka, this is a public message board. SpaceGhost posted a story that told of the joy he took in making a Freshman cry.
Understand that the impression we’re getting of the organization from this thread is one of an abusive, intractable, cruel hierarchy, with arbitrary rules of questionable value. It doesn’t help that the proponent of this behavior has trouble writing coherently. Grammar may not have much to do with the corps, but it has a lot to do with real life, and Space Ghost is supposedly in an institute of higher education.
If he expected respect for the organization he’s a part of to be built into the replies, he should have posted on the organization’s board, if it exists.
He took a private display of cruelty, and made it public. I don’t know what he expected; congratulations, reinforcement, admiration? What he got was disgust and contempt. To me, to most people I know, taking delight in the suffering of another person is disgusting and contemptible.
The difference between this thread, and the ones like SpaceGhost mentioned, is that the others are admitting embarrassing mistakes, and exploring the commonalities that make us all human. This thread is suggesting that SpaceGhost is compromising his status as a decent human being.
There’s a big difference between laughing with someone because they do the same stupid stuff you do, and laughing at someone because you used your position of power to make them suffer.
Well, this is true, I’m not dumb enough to join any sort of military institution. Kidding, but with my hatred for authority it is extremely unlikely that I would be caught dead in such a place unless I was either trying to make my own life miserable or had some plan to drive some military people insane (which would be fun I must admit).
Sorry, I just don’t like authoritarian organizations, and yes, I do realize the need for a military. I’m just bitter at my parents or something
I expect a person of character to recognize and reject the victimization of persons over whom he or she has power.
Participation and promotion of such victimization is reprehensible, and shows a lack of character.
Laughing over the anguish of the victim is beyond the pale.
One hopes that the abuser will eventually mature and grow a backbone.
I smell the ghost of FreakFreely here. ::sniff:: ::sniff::
By the way, I attend a college through distance learning and I kind of feel left out of the whole college sorority/frat stuff. Can someone please haze me so I can learn to respect others?
“HEY FISHIE! YOU CAN’T LOOK YOUR COMPUTER MONITOR IN THE EYE! DROP AND GIVE ME 20!”
Zette: “Sir, yes sir!” ::gets a cup of coffee and a snickers bar::
“Finished Sir!”
Doesn’t quite have the same ring to it.
Space Ghost, I have one piece of advice for you that someone gave me once. If everyone else seems like they’re being an asshole, look in the mirror. It is not usually everyone else.
Zette