[i] Malcolm in the Middle [/i] crossed a line last night

[Askia]

@Stranger On A Train

What I object to is the use of the deprecatory term “snob” applied to anyone who doesn’t find humorous what you think is funny.

Overruled. It goes beyond a specific performer, or the example of one show or one joke. I noted humor snobs generally don’t think lowbrow humor as a broad category is funny.

I’m not a “snob” because I don’t think South Park, or amputation, or whatever, any more than I’m a snob because I don’t think Charles Shultz was funny.

I thought you were taking this personally. Sorry. I agree with your last part, though: I’ve read dozens of interviews and own a couple of biographies and Schultz was never funny. His 50 year-body of cartoons is hilarious, though.

So, if your humor doesn’t fit into the classification defined by the above categories, you’re a snob? :rolleyes:

Scoff if you must, but I stand by the evidence of my senses and the conclusions of my observations.

Humor is subjective. One person’s belly laugh is another’s groaner. That doesn’t make one better than the other, or either a snob, unless they perneciously and obnoxiously insist that the other is somehow diseased or feebleminded for enjoying their own sense of humor. In order for something to be amusing to me, it needs to be novel (at least on first viewing), unexpected, clever, and preferably a little though provoking. That doesn’t mean that foul language or shocking behavior make it unfunny–they’re often appropriate, such as in Trainspotting–but alone they don’t make something amusing.

That’s… the most thoroughly snobbish thing with regard to humor I ever heard. What a brilliant, unprovoked perfect display of humor snobbery! You know how fucking hard it is in the course of normal human living to come across something novel, unexpected, clever and thought-provoking – yet with enough familairality to find it funny? No wait – you said, “amuse” so even if something satisfied that criteria, it’d only be faintly funny. Christ, You’ve seen people make faces. Under no circumstances if you saw an adult trying to make you laugh by making a face or a funny noise, would you be amused, eh? You’d be-- what? Indifferent? Angry? Bored by the adult’s vapid predictability and lack of original thought? Oh, what a small-hearted unfeeling elitist you must be. Tsk, tsk. SHAME, SHAME.

My friend, what you describe is wit. And as was said by Sherlock Holmes in a pastiche I wish I could find, “Humor and wit are not the same thing.” Anyone who depends mostly on wit for amusement is a humor snob.

Personally, I find humor based on shock value to be cheap, predictable, and pandering.

That’s exactly what makes you a humor snob, man. Cheap to whom? Predictable, how? Pandering to what sorts of people? People like you? And what’'s so special about people like YOU that you can’t laugh? Hah? Hah? See, you think something’s wrong with the material. (It’s just shock value! It’s pandering and cheap!) When I don’t laugh at something, I blame the performer or delivery. (I rarely find Rob Schneider funny.)

That doesn’t mean that someone who enjoys it is a bad or stupid person; and my MIT-graduate ex-girlfriend was a big fan of South Park. But I do get irritated when I’m decried a “snob” 'cause I’m not laughing at the guy who glues his <insert appendage here> to his <insert intimate body part here> while attempting to <insert embarassing bodily function here>. It’s just that I’ve seen it before, I know what’s going to happen, and it wasn’t (to me) even all that funny the first time.

Your MIT-ex has nothing to do with it. This has nothing to do with intelligence. Here’s what I think is the basic problem here: deep down, no matter what the set-up is, you think think there’s something wrong with laughing at stupid jokes and silly material. You think you MUST be offended by fart jokes and blue comedians. I’m sorry I just find that attitude – snobbish.

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

@Askia

I’m sorry I just find that attitude – snobbish.

Then take your insults to The Pit…where they belong.

Stranger

[LonesomePolecat]

@Not A Tame Lion

I’m not a Malcolm viewer in any regular sense. Last night I had the show on “in the background” while I was working on my computer, waiting for The Simpsons to come on. I was only vaguely aware of the whole turn of events with the dog and the leg. I didn’t really find it uproarious, but also didn’t find the gag all that offensive, either.

But, when you add LonesomePolecat having a Margaret Dumont, clutch-the-pearls, “Well, I never” moment over the sequence, then it becomes fucking hilarious!

If you want to get personal and sling insults, take it to the Pit.

[LonesomePolecat]

@Askia

Overruled. It goes beyond a specific performer, or the example of one show or one joke. I noted humor snobs generally don’t think lowbrow humor as a broad category is funny.

I thought you were taking this personally. Sorry. I agree with your last part, though: I’ve read dozens of interviews and own a couple of biographies and Schultz was never funny. His 50 year-body of cartoons is hilarious, though.

Scoff if you must, but I stand by the evidence of my senses and the conclusions of my observations.

That’s… the most thoroughly snobbish thing with regard to humor I ever heard. What a brilliant, unprovoked perfect display of humor snobbery! You know how fucking hard it is in the course of normal human living to come across something novel, unexpected, clever and thought-provoking – yet with enough familairality to find it funny? No wait – you said, “amuse” so even if something satisfied that criteria, it’d only be faintly funny. Christ, You’ve seen people make faces. Under no circumstances if you saw an adult trying to make you laugh by making a face or a funny noise, would you be amused, eh? You’d be-- what? Indifferent? Angry? Bored by the adult’s vapid predictability and lack of original thought? Oh, what a small-hearted unfeeling elitist you must be. Tsk, tsk. SHAME, SHAME.

My friend, what you describe is wit. And as was said by Sherlock Holmes in a pastiche I wish I could find, “Humor and wit are not the same thing.” Anyone who depends mostly on wit for amusement is a humor snob.

That’s exactly what makes you a humor snob, man. Cheap to whom? Predictable, how? Pandering to what sorts of people? People like you? And what’'s so special about people like YOU that you can’t laugh? Hah? Hah? See, you think something’s wrong with the material. (It’s just shock value! It’s pandering and cheap!) When I don’t laugh at something, I blame the performer or delivery. (I rarely find Rob Schneider funny.)

Your MIT-ex has nothing to do with it. This has nothing to do with intelligence. Here’s what I think is the basic problem here: deep down, no matter what the set-up is, you think think there’s something wrong with laughing at stupid jokes and silly material. You think you MUST be offended by fart jokes and blue comedians. I’m sorry I just find that attitude – snobbish.

Please define the difference between “lowbrow” and “sick.” We aren’t talking about fart jokes and blue comedians here. We’re talking about the mutilation of a living person with a part of her person being devoured by an animal.

Here’s a joke for you:

Q: How do you get a nigger out of a tree?
A: Cut the rope.

What’s that? You don’t find it funny? You must be a humor snob. Some jokes aren’t just tasteless, they’re sick. Or maybe you’re going to say that it’s wrong to make jokes about blacks being lynched but it’s somehow okay to make jokes about mutilating elderly women and feeding their body parts to animals.

You’re getting rather overheated here. Perhaps you should take it to the Pit if you want to make free use of profanity and indulge yourself in personal attacks.

I apologize to anyone who was offended, but I’m trying to make a point here as forcefully as possible.

[Who_me_1]

You were offended. Okay, I can deal with that. But it appears that you were in a small minority that were offended.

[Mauvaise]

@LonesomePolecat

Well, I think it was offensive, and I suspect most people would agree with me.

Judging by the responses in this thread, I suspect most people don’t agree with you. Whether or not they found it funny, I don’t remember anyone that said it was offensive other than you. Gross? Yes. Not funny? Sure. Offensive? Just you.

Personally I thought it sounded hysterical. And not even a little gross as they apparently didn’t show anything on camera.

[pokey]

Well… There’s a thread in another forum right now that’s called “I’m cutting my dog’s leg off” and so of course every time I see it I naturally can’t help think how offended I would be if grandma ran away with it and tried to eat it under the porch. It’s really driving me nuts.

[LonesomePolecat]

@Who_me?

But it appears that you were in a small minority that were offended.

And how does that make me wrong?

[Askia]

1. LonesomePolecat. Oh, no we are not. We’re talking about a fictional character’s amputated leg, one who was emotionally abusive, spiteful and petty as hell, which up as medical waste and was stolen by a dog. A dog eating a severed leg (off camera via sound effects) is, well, unfortunate but expected. Sick would have been little Jamie eating it.

2. Lowbrow humor is humor that would be appreciated in a bar but out of place at a televised awards show. Sick humor is a subcategory of lowbrow humor. And gets its kicks off gross descriptions and taboo subject matter. What happened on Malcolm was a little too restrained to be truly “sick.”

3. Oooh. You wanna tell nigger jokes in the hopes of shocking me. Yeah, good fucking luck with that, buck-o. I am suddenly reminded of that scene in The Nutty Professor II: The Klumps when Sherman gets up on stage to tell fat jokes. You wanna tell ME nigger jokes? A-hem:

[spoiler]What has eight legs and yells “Ho de doe, ho de doe?” Four niggers running for the elevator.

How do you keep nigger kids from jumping on the bed? Put Velcro on the ceiling.

What comes in June and makes nigger kids cry? Father’s Day in Harlem.

Why did the nigger bitch yell, “OO, Yeah, give it to me big daddy!” She was fucking her mama’s boyfriend.

Why is it a bad idea to insult niggers’ mothers? That’s their job – their only job.

What are Mydol, Tylenol, Viagara and Vicks? Names for nigger kids.[/spoiler]

Would you be shocked to find that as a black man I find most nigger jokes incredibly insulting and yet endlessly inventive? Some, are, in fact, funny.

What’s that? You don’t find it funny? You must be a humor snob.

Uh… re-read my last two sentences. I’ve laughed at nigger jokes when they were told by Lenny Bruce, Eddie Murphy, Dice Clay, Sam Kinison, Chris Rock and Richard Pryor. Do you realize how many nigger jokes get told by black comedians on the chitlin circuit?

Some jokes aren’t just tasteless, they’re sick. Or maybe you’re going to say that it’s wrong to make jokes about blacks being lynched but it’s somehow okay to make jokes about mutilating elderly women and feeding their body parts to animals.

Exactly. Think about where you saw this, take a deep breath and realize: on broadcast TV, which has to adhere to FCC standards, it’s wrong to make jokes about blacks being lynched. And I don’t know what show you were watching, but I did not see a mutlilated elderly woman having her body parts fed to animals on Malcolm. I saw an amputee’s medically wrapped severed leg stolen and presumably eaten off-camera by one dog in a tragic yet humorous turn of events.

You’re getting rather overheated here. Perhaps you should take it to the Pit if you want to make free use of profanity and indulge yourself in personal attacks.

Hey. All I said was “fucking” and mock a snooty attitude. You started in with the nigger jokes. But did I complain? Am I calling the mods, pretending to be all offended? As long as you restrain yourself there’s no need to go to the Pit. Cuz, you may not really wanna go there with me, son.

I apologize to anyone who was offended, but I’m trying to make a point here as forcefully as possible.

As was I, but I’m pretty certain I didn’t do anything I need to apologize for.

You’re not wrong to be offended. Humor snobs are never wrong. But you could loosen up a bit. You’re making waaaaay too much out of this.

[Askia]

Actually, re-reading this, that last parting shot about “Humor snobs are never wrong” was out of line, so I do apologize for that, LonsomePolecat. Look, I’m also sure you were skeeved out by the show, perhaps for personal reasons I’m not considering, but given the wide latitude with which TV shows have to make fun of things within certain boundaries, I don’t see how any line was crossed other than your personal comfort zone.

[D_Odds]

@LonesomePolecat

And how does that make me wrong?

@LonesomePolecat

Well, I think it was offensive, and I suspect most people would agree with me.

Bolding added.

Not to downplay your level of offense, but our small, unscientific example from this thread shows virtually no agreement with you regarding the offensiveness of the material.

[LonesomePolecat]

@D_Odds

Bolding added.

Not to downplay your level of offense, but our small, unscientific example from this thread shows virtually no agreement with you regarding the offensiveness of the material.

Proving what?

[Askia]

Proving, among other things, that when you don’t know the difference between “This is offensive to me,” and “What? Humorous mutilation! This has gone too far! It’s pandering and insulting! I’m sure most people agree!” and then not have one person agree, it might be a good idea to drop it.

C’mon. Let’s go down to the Pit and swap nigger jokes as forcefully as possible. I know that always cheers you up.

[D_Odds]

That more people don’t agree with you than do agree with you, regarding the offensiveness of this episode of MitM. Granted, I wouldn’t submit this thread to the New England Journal of Comedy as solid proof that the gag wasn’t offensive. My assertion is our small sample has not backed up your claim from an earlier post that “most people would agree” (that the episode was offensive).

To repeat, it doesn’t mean that you were not offended. That is a personal response no one can repudiate. It just means that the majority of the people who watched this episode and felt the desire to respond to your thread were not offended and do not agree with you.

[medstar]

If anyone’s interested, my favorite episode with Lois’s mother is when she comes back from a cruise with a Chinese boyfriend, played by James Hong, who she’s brainwashed into marrying her. Hilarity ensues.

[Sublight]

It probably won’t make its way over here for another year or so, but I thought Barbarian’s description was hilarious.

@DocCathode

Family Guy

I can’t think of any amputations. But most episodes had a few ‘paraplegic in a wheelchair’ jokes.

There was one joke about Peter waiting until the last minute to buy gifts for Lois, which then goes to a cut scene of Lois opening a box:

Lois: Oh, my goodness! A human thumb! Peter, where on earth did you get this?
Peter (shivering and looking very pale as he presses his hand under his arm): Oh… nowhere special… (he then turns and throws up).

[Johanna]

The scene in the OP is quite similar to the grossest scene in David Lynch’s movie Wild at Heart. And Lynch is considered a serious director and all. Edgy too.

(OK, I admit I had my hands over my eyes during most of that scene. Unfortunately, I peeked out just in time to see the flying head in the air.) :eek:

[DocCathode]

@Sublight

It probably won’t make its way over here for another year or so, but I thought Barbarian’s description was hilarious.
There was one joke about Peter waiting until the last minute to buy gifts for Lois, which then goes to a cut scene of Lois opening a box:

Lois: Oh, my goodness! A human thumb! Peter, where on earth did you get this?
Peter (shivering and looking very pale as he presses his hand under his arm): Oh… nowhere special… (he then turns and throws up).

I also remembered a flashback in which a sorority girl shows up explaining that she needs a human foot for a scavenger hunt. Peter makes pleasant conversation while he uses a handsaw to amputate one of his feet.