I May Be Wrong, But I Think You're a Fucking Coward

[Tuckerfan]

I am reluctant to say for certain that a member of the Army reserves is a coward, but based on everything that you’ve told me, I’m leaning towards that conclusion. I do know, that you’re a lying, ignorant fuck. You’ve told conflicting stories about your work experience, and while you might have some previous experience as a machinist, it’s patently obvious that you don’t know as much about machining as Pete Fucking Puma and that’s damned pathetic, really.

Tonight, at lunch, you went off on your patented tirade that all the problems in Iraq can be reduced to one simple thing: the media. Nevermind the fact that a number of retired generals have stated, on the record, that Rummy refused to even discuss post-war plans, or that various experts have stated, again, on the record, that estimates for the numbers of troops needed to occupy Iraq were around 500K (of course, these numbers were expoused by people who worked for that commie-pinko Clinton, so they should be ignored), and that our troops have complained that they weren’t given the right equipment to do the job. Nope. All these folks, many of whom, unlike you, have combat experience, are just flat fucking wrong, and it’s entirely the liberal media’s fault. Gee, if that were true, then why is it that the Bush Administration has dropped that argument?

I also find it odd that a friend of mine, who just got back from his third tour of Iraq (which is, uh, three more than you’ve had), never mentioned anything about the media causing problems while he was there. For the record, the only time the media came up, was when he forwarded me an email from an officer in the Marines. The email gave a link to a BBC video showing Marines fighting house-to-house, in, IIRC, Fallujah, with the comment, “This is a great video, and I’m going to use it in my training classes as it shows the proper way to clear a house.” (emphasis mine). That’s it. No, “Look here, the media finally got something right.” Nope. Just a statement that the video was a great training tool. BTW, this friend of mine, is getting out of the Marines as soon as his current hitch is up, because, “it’s just not worth it.”

He, along with a former classmate of mine, is why I strongly suspect that you are a craven little coward. You see, when it became obvious that we were going to go to war in Iraq, my friend, Rob, (who’d been in the first Gulf War) realized that his unit wasn’t going to be one of the first ones deployed to Iraq. Now, Rob felt that since he’d had combat experience, he had an obligation to be among the first to go to Iraq. Seems he had a problem with the idea that some young kids could get killed because he wasn’t there to train them. So Rob asked to be transfered to a unit that was going to be the first to ship out, and low and behold, he got his wish. He went (and mind you, he’d also served in Afghanistan, which you never did), came back for a few months, and then got shipped back again.

Ah, but Rob’s active duty, and you’re a member of the reserves, which is a different matter entirely. i’d buy that, except for the former classmate of mine that i mentioned earlier. You see, Doug, like you, is a member of the Army reserves. Doug, like Rob (and unlike you), has combat experience (Doug’s combat experience dates all the way back to before Panama), and when Doug realized that his unit wasn’t going to deploy to Iraq rightaway, Doug got himself transferred to a unit that was. It wasn’t difficult for him to do, and while I’ve not heard from Doug since he shipped out, I’ve no doubt that Doug’s done a damn fine job in Iraq.

But, i would be dishonest if i didn’t concede that there were significant differences between your situation and theirs. After all, while Rob and Doug both still have kids at home, yours are grown. And, admittedly, you did have to have knee surgery this past December at the same time your unit shipped out to Iraq, so you couldn’t go. Still, I can’t imagine why, now that your knee’s all better, you don’t go to your CO and request a transfer to a unit that will be shipping out soon. After all, you do keep saying, “I wish I was over there.”

There’s other things that I don’t quite understand about your service. At one time you were active duty in the Navy, and according to you, you were a helicopter mechanic (you claim you can’t do that as a civilian as you can’t afford to go to school to get the necessary certifications, I’m confused by this, since your military experience should transfer to any school [especially where I went to school to be a machinist] and you ought to be eligible for some form of the GI Bill), but when you joined the Army reserves, you were put into the “Personnel department,” and yet, when you talk about going to guard duty, you don’t say anything about filing, or dealing with personnel-type issues. Nope. You bitch about having to be the driver of the bus. This leads me to suspect that, in fact, you’re not in personnel, but are simply a driver and that if you got sent to Iraq you’re scared that you’d be killed by a roadside bomb, since you’d have to drive in a convoy. I could, of course, be wrong. And it’s past my bedtime, or I’d bring up your racist attitudes. Sadly, that’ll have to wait until I’ve gotten some sleep (and that’s assuming I wake up in time to add to this before I have to go vote, since I want to get the Republicans out of office as they’ve fouled things up pretty badly, and I’m opposed to the anti-gay amendment that’s on the ballot, I’m sure if you knew about it, it’d piss you off).

[Bricker]

I would point out, without comment on the specifics of your friend’s situation, that there are different “varieties” of reserves.

The IRR, or Individual Ready Reserves, are individual, previously-trained and active soldiers, that may be called upon to fill vacancies in Army Reserve units and can replace soldiers in both active and reserve units.

A reservist may also be assigned to a TPU, a Troop Program Unit. In this assignment, he may not be activated individually; he is only called to active duty if his entire unit is activated.

[Steve_MB]

@Bricker

A reservist may also be assigned to a TPU, a Troop Program Unit. In this assignment, he may not be activated individually; he is only called to active duty if his entire unit is activated.

So Loudmouth need only request a transfer to a unit that is going to be activated.

You know, like Rob and Doug did according to the description of events set forth in the OP.

[Cheesesteak]

AFAICT all Loudmouth has done to earn the label of coward is to do exactly what the Army asks of him, rather than demanding to be sent into Iraq.

If that’s a coward, then what about a guy like me, who is under the enlistment age of 42 and hasn’t even JOINED the reserves at all? I mean, I must be some kind of monster coward, I don’t even HAVE kids to worry about.

[Bricker]

@Steve MB

So Loudmouth need only request a transfer to a unit that is going to be activated.

You know, like Rob and Doug did according to the description of events set forth in the OP.

I have no idea what Rob or Doug’s MOS (Military Occupation Speciality) is, nor what Loudmouth’s is. Perhaps Rob and Doug had MOS quals that let them easily transfer into units that were about to be deployed, while Loudmouth has an MOS with few or no billets in units that were being deployed. Rob and Doug may have been 11B and Loudmouth may be a 44C, for all we know.

(11B = basic infantryman – I suspect in large demand… 44C = Finance specialist, I suspect not so much needed in large numbers in Iraq).

[Hentor_the_Barbarian]

@Cheesesteak

AFAICT all Loudmouth has done to earn the label of coward is to do exactly what the Army asks of him, rather than demanding to be sent into Iraq.

If that’s a coward, then what about a guy like me, who is under the enlistment age of 42 and hasn’t even JOINED the reserves at all? I mean, I must be some kind of monster coward, I don’t even HAVE kids to worry about.

That, and apparently express the sentiment that he wishes he were over there. And offers his expert opinion on the situation.

Of course, if you are a member of the keyboard kommandos, perhaps the label does apply.

[Zeriel]

@Cheesesteak

AFAICT all Loudmouth has done to earn the label of coward is to do exactly what the Army asks of him, rather than demanding to be sent into Iraq.

If that’s a coward, then what about a guy like me, who is under the enlistment age of 42 and hasn’t even JOINED the reserves at all? I mean, I must be some kind of monster coward, I don’t even HAVE kids to worry about.

I suspect it depends on whether you are being a loudmouth the same way loudmouth is.

@Tuckerfan

After all, you do keep saying, "I wish I was over there."

In other words, are you complaining about not being currently in Iraq? If not, I suspect you’re off the hook.

To summarize:
A) Not going to Iraq, not complaining about staying home: OK
B) Going to Iraq even if you have to volunteer to do so: Heroic
C) Not going to Iraq, not attempting to volunteer to do so, complaining because you are not going: Hypocrite, Coward.

[Steve_MB]

@Bricker

I have no idea what Rob or Doug’s MOS (Military Occupation Speciality) is, nor what Loudmouth’s is. Perhaps Rob and Doug had MOS quals that let them easily transfer into units that were about to be deployed, while Loudmouth has an MOS with few or no billets in units that were being deployed. Rob and Doug may have been 11B and Loudmouth may be a 44C, for all we know.

(11B = basic infantryman – I suspect in large demand… 44C = Finance specialist, I suspect not so much needed in large numbers in Iraq).

I assume that, given the description of Loudmouth as one prone to going off on a “patented tirade”, he would have mentioned such a problem if it existed, and the OP would therefore not find cause to flame him as a chickenhawk.

Of course, I could be wrong; only the OP can clarify the matter.

[The_King_of_Soup]

Reserving judgment.

I suspect that Tuckerfan may not know absolutely everything about his coworker’s life and military career. That’s a handicap. But as for the target of the pitting:

He says he wishes he was there, but isn’t, and may or may not have any control over it. I often say I was in a position to do something (say, president of the United States or Chairman of General Motors or Chief Justice of the Supreme Court), but I don’t really mean I want the job, I just mean I would like my one small idea to be implemented, just for now. It’s hypocritical, technically, but it’s also human, and I’d not sacrifice the latter to avoid being accused of the former.

If he actually thinks that the negative news from Iraq is a creation of the liberal media and that things are actually going as well as the rosiest neocon projections dreamt, then in his mind there’s little danger, so going wouldn’t be that heroic and avoiding going wouldn’t be that cowardly, no?

If he’s lying about his true feelings about the story in Iraq, and avoids going because he feels that he’s likely to be killed there, but his avoidance keeps within the rules (he’s not deserting or ducking, apparently, he’s just waiting), he may be a blowhard, but cowardice is still an insult to be hurled by Rob or Doug, maybe, who have done and sacrificed more, but not by me.

His age and his disability used to (I don’t know what the rules are now) place him on the available-active list somewhere between nuns and babies. It may not be within his power to put his unprotected torso where his mouth is.

This pitting seems like it’s about more stuff Tuckerfan knows or thinks about his target that has nothing to do with military service than it is about the other reasons (doubtless perfectly legitimate) Tuckerfan doesn’t like him. If so, I’d like to know more about those. It’s no more just for a Rush Limbaugh fan to be accused of cowardice than it is for anyone else to be so labeled, and why bother? Lying, ignorant fuck is enough without dragging unproveable guesses about physical courage into it.

[Cheesesteak]

@Zeriel

In other words, are you complaining about not being currently in Iraq? If not, I suspect you’re off the hook.

That’s a fair point, I didn’t notice that line initially, because Tuckerfan buried it 3/4 of the way down a long post. Just like the liberal media does with positive news from Iraq!

[Tuckerfan]

@Bricker

I have no idea what Rob or Doug’s MOS (Military Occupation Speciality) is, nor what Loudmouth’s is. Perhaps Rob and Doug had MOS quals that let them easily transfer into units that were about to be deployed, while Loudmouth has an MOS with few or no billets in units that were being deployed. Rob and Doug may have been 11B and Loudmouth may be a 44C, for all we know.

(11B = basic infantryman – I suspect in large demand… 44C = Finance specialist, I suspect not so much needed in large numbers in Iraq).

Rob’s a NBC tech, Doug’s a maintenance tech, and I’ve no idea what Loudmouth does, since he’s so damned contradictory in his stories about what he’s done. He claims that when he was in the Navy he was a helicopter tech, now that he’s in the Army reserves he’s in “personnel” (his term, not mine), and yet, he recently went for infantry training. My understanding is that they’re so in need of soldiers in Iraq, that they don’t care what your specialty is, you’re going if you ask.

[usar_jag]

@Bricker

I would point out, without comment on the specifics of your friend’s situation, that there are different “varieties” of reserves.

The IRR, or Individual Ready Reserves, are individual, previously-trained and active soldiers, that may be called upon to fill vacancies in Army Reserve units and can replace soldiers in both active and reserve units.

A reservist may also be assigned to a TPU, a Troop Program Unit. In this assignment, he may not be activated individually; he is only called to active duty if his entire unit is activated.

Nitpicks:

The IRR can contain previously active duty personnel, personnel that have only been in the Reserves, transferees between Reserve units, and officer candidates awaiting their commission into the Reserves.

A Soldier in a TPU most certainly can be activated individually–that is, taken from their assigned unit and “cross-leveled” into a unit that is being activated. This typically happens either to volunteers (who put their name on a list) or to Soldiers that have multiple skill identifiers e.g., those who have an MOS for a truck driver and military police. If a transportation unit receives a warning order and is short drivers, someone will be getting cross-leveled.

[Miller]

@Bricker

A reservist may also be assigned to a TPU, a Troop Program Unit. In this assignment, he may not be activated individually; he is only called to active duty if his entire unit is activated.

Not sure how this factors in, but:

@Tuckerfan

And, admittedly, you did have to have knee surgery this past December at the same time your unit shipped out to Iraq, so you couldn’t go.

[Tuckerfan]

Which is basically negated by what usar_jag has posted. Loudmouth (though he should more properly be called “Mr. Tippytoes” since that’s how he walks and one of my former cow-irkers is more befitting of the name “Loudmouth”) has stated that he’s passed two Army physicals since his surgery and has been certified as being fit for duty.

[Monty]

@Tuckerfan

I’ve no idea what Loudmouth does, since he’s so damned contradictory in his stories about what he’s done. He claims that when he was in the Navy he was a helicopter tech, now that he’s in the Army reserves he’s in “personnel” (his term, not mine), and yet, he recently went for infantry training.

Helicopter tech? Never heard of that one before. I guess my years as a Personnelman in the US Navy were wasted since I must’ve obviously been asleep the whole time that particular rating was around.

The US Army calls it administration; or at least did when I was in the Army. (Yes, I actually did my first hitch, and extended it, in the US Army.)

As to going for Infantry training: yeah, right! To do that, he has to apply for a change of MOS. He can, of course, apply for a secondary MOS; however, that’s usually earned via OJT.

Now, I’ve a question for the OP. Have any of LM’s contradictory stories come to the attention of management? For every civilian job I’ve had, I could be fired immediately for cause if I falsely represented my prior experience on the job application.

[Tuckerfan]

@Monty

Now, I’ve a question for the OP. Have any of LM’s contradictory stories come to the attention of management? For every civilian job I’ve had, I could be fired immediately for cause if I falsely represented my prior experience on the job application.

Well, they know he’s an inept boob, but so long as you show up, they’re unlikely to fire you. He shows up, so. . .

[Tuckerfan]

An update: He got fired tonight. Seems one day last week he allowed a machine to run bad parts all night long, and those were high dollar parts, so tonight, as soon as he walked in the door, they fired him. Nobody at work was really happy about it, but they weren’t surprised, either.

[Dunderman]

@Bricker

MOS (Military Occupation Speciality) (…) (11B = basic infantryman – I suspect in large demand… 44C = Finance specialist, I suspect not so much needed in large numbers in Iraq).

Thanks, Bricker; without you this thread would have been even less comprehensible for me. Now, if only someone could tell me what OJT is…

[Contrapuntal]

@Priceguy

Thanks, Bricker; without you this thread would have been even less comprehensible for me. Now, if only someone could tell me what OJT is…

On the Job Training.

[Sean_Factotum]

@Monty

Helicopter tech? Never heard of that one before. I guess my years as a Personnelman in the US Navy were wasted since I must’ve obviously been asleep the whole time that particular rating was around.

Well, he could have been an Aviation Electrician with an NEC specific to helicopters. You have have a general technical rating and work on only one type of aircraft.