I no longer understand the conservative strategy in the War on Terror

After the 9/11 attacks, there was a worldwide outpouring of sympathy for the US and opposition to terrorism. A US-led coalition then invaded Afghanistan with broad domestic and international support.

After that, the Bushies have pursued a counter-terrorism strategy that raises some questions. At Tora Bora they let Osama bin Laden slip out rather than pressing home the attack. They have thus far been reluctant to pursue Al Qaeda and the Taliban into Pakistan, despite the fact that these groups have gone far in reconstituting their organizations in the lawless border regions there.

When the Iranians offered to help, they were rebuffed, weakening the moderates, strengthening the anti-US hard-liners and paving the way for the election of anti-Amerucan radical Ahmadinejad. cite All the nuances of Iranian politics are ignored rather than manipulated with clever back-door diplomacy.

The Bushies pushed through the invasion and occupation of Iraq even though Saddam Hussein was not a radical Islamist and was keeping a lid on them, thus creating a power vacuum where terrorist groups can thrive. (I compare this to fighting the weeds in your vegetable garden by ripping up the sod from your lawn.)

Did they really think that virtually all Islamic terrorists would flock to Iraq and meet their deaths in the ongoing battles there? Or that planting democracy there would result in democracy and moderation sweeping the Middle East and quickly sapping all support for terrorist groups? Are these goals not mutually exclusive? And are either of them remotely realistic? Are they over-reliant on moderate Muslims or overly dismissive of them? Conservatives have certainly show across-the-board hostility to Muslims as of late.

If there’s one thing Muslims can’t stand above all else is when Westerners intervene in their part of the world and the humiliation that goes along with it. Did the Bushies somehow not know this? Anyone could have predicted that they’d quickly overlook the removal of Saddam and see the occupation of Iraq as part of a pattern confirming that the West is trying to destroy Islam—and react accordingly.

They seem convinced that that last ounce of militaristic posturing is the key to solving the problem, and yet it’s mostly vague and directionless. Do they even see it as a problem to be solved, however partially, or is just a matter of “fighting”, even if it’s with gasoline. They appear oblivious to the concept of provocation or reaction to perceived threats, but are obsessed with the concept of non-appeasement. We’re going to non-appease the terrorists to death and the other Muslims will love us for it. Is that the plan?

But most of their effort goes toward excoriating Democrats, liberals, and Europeans for wanting to help the terrorists take over our government and take away our freedom—or worse, sing “kum-ba-ya” with them.

Now I don’t think the conservative strategy is to kill 200 times as many Muslims as Hitler killed Jews, but they seem to be painting us into that particular corner.

So again, what exactly is the strategy and how can it be shown to be succeeding?

It got them the war in Iraq them wanted, let them harass and spy on political opponents, kidnap and torture people, and chop away at civil rights, among other things; so it succeeded there. The Republicans have never cared about terrorism save as a bloody shirt they can wave to get what they want. There IS no actual War On Terror, and never has been.

Please do not refer to anything GWB does as “conservative.”

The was a

strategy?

9/11 was a real event. It gave the neocons the excuse they had been looking for ever since Israel attacked the Iraqi nuclear facility in the early '90s to enlist the U.S. military as a proxy to depose the largest and most heavily-armed Arab regime in the region.

End of story (until and unless they manage to manipulate an attack on Iran, Syria, or whoever else is on Charles Krauthammer or Bill Kristol or Paul Wolfowitz’s list).

They had to call it a war, even when it ain’t, so that our fearless leader might further delude himself that he is a “War President.”

Well he wants to outlaw abortion, reduce taxes on the rich and teach our children christian mythology in school, so he does quack like a duck.

At what point did you understand bush’s idea of the war on terror. From your OP it seems that you understood Afghanistan, but nothing else. If that’s the case, you never really understood it at all. (No snark intended.)

Has GWB ever spoken out in favor of a Human Life Amendment?

Did GWB lower taxes on the rich, or on everyone?

Has GWB advocated for teaching Christian precepts in public schools? How would he, given that the federal government has no control over schools run by the several states?

Just looking for cites.

Right to Life: http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53885

Taxes on Rich: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html

ID: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/02/AR2005080201686.html

Have you not been paying attention for the last eight?

Afghanistan was just something they had to get out of the way so they could go after their real target, Iraq. Which is why they did such a half assed job.

From your cite: (bolding mine)

Based on an exhaustive analysis of tax records and census data, the study reinforced the sense that **while Mr. Bush’s tax cuts reduced rates for people at every income level,** they offered the biggest benefits by far to people at the very top — especially the top 1 percent of income earners.

So your own cite shows that your claim was misleading. He reduced taxes at every income level. The rich are taxed more and pay more, so any overall lessening of the burden will benefit them more. Get over it. It’s a different philosophy: conservatives prefer a flatter system, liberals a more progressive one. It’s a way for them to do what they really want: redistribute the wealth. A truly disgusting notion.

On preview, I have no idea why that quote is appearing the way it is. I just used the tool.

I’ll forgive you lack of technical expertise, given that the conservative candidate can’t even use email. :smiley:

Kidding. In any case, I think you’re the one mixed up here. I said he wants to reduce the taxes on the rich. I didn’t mention the middle class. Now as it happens he reduced the amount for the rich by more, and that makes him a bona fide conservative by my definition.

The thrust was that conservatives want to disavow bush because he was a disaster. But I’m saying he was a disaster who was a conservative. What are the odds?

As noted, your cite on taxes proved only that the rich, who pay a hugely disproportionate share of taxes, benefit disproportionately when taxes are cut. This does not mean that taxes are cut only on the rich. It means that the lower-income people, who are paying little or no taxes, are affected, but in lesser degree, because their tax burden is lower to begin with. So, you are wrong on that.

You are wrong on my question about the Human Life Amendment (which is the only thing that could possibly “outlaw abortion”) because your cite shows nothing other than Bush expressing a belief in the sanctity of life. You do know (do you?) that overruling Roe would not make abortion illegal? It would merely return the matter to the sovereign states.

Finally, your cite on intelligent design disproves your premise because it contains (as I predicted) the following quote:

So, you are zero for three.

If there’s a distinction between the policies the Bush admin has pursued and what most conservatives would have advocated, it certainly belongs in this thread.

Well?

Much bigger than that. It allowed him to assume war powers that are not available to normal US skirmishing. It allowed ignoring Geneva, torture and listening in on American phone calls.

Well, Republicans are not (at least lately) the same as conservatives. GWB himself ran on an anti-“nation building” ticket. Then he got swallowed whole by Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith, and the rest of the neo-con cabal. Neo-cons are not “conservative” in the classical sense.

Actually I’m three for three. What I said:

You’re the one moving the goalposts to specifics. I hereby bequeath the *Faleboat *captain’s hat to you.

Do try to keep up. Also we’re diverting this thread. I’ve substantiated that Bush is a conservative. So can we get back to the topic at hand?

And Liberals are not Liberal in the classical sense. What matters is how it’s viewed today.

His spending was way out of control. And any supposed conservative who does not do what is necessary to secure the country’s borders is no conservative.

:smiley: Nice.