I pit Coldfire's WWII Thread

For those of you who, like me until a few hours ago, haven’t seen it, it’s here.

Although I only read the first dozen posts on the first page and this year’s posts on the last page, it left a bad taste in my mouth. Why? Well, there are some things that don’t really stand up, like British troops fighting in a war that didn’t concern them. Hardly. We were next on Hitler’s list. Then there are the absences, such as the Dutch who sided with Hitler or were considered traitorous by other Dutch people. Then, there is the whole question of exactly how much the average German knew about what Hitler and his henchmen were doing, and how much they willingly contributed to it.

Besides the simplistic nature of what Coldfire wrote, which he would probably acknowledge, there’s also the fact that it was likely to elicit the kind of reaction it received - sort of awed adulation. Anything that does that should arouse our suspicions, I believe.

For anyone who felt the same way, but couldn’t quite put it into words, here’s your opportunity to say so. For those who don’t feel that way, I will present a pretty immobile “target of opportunity” for your weaponry. Let the battle of words commence. After all, as Popper wrote, the fundamental importance of criticism is that it is ‘the only alternative to violence so far discovered’, enabling our ideas to die in our stead.

Pretty weak pitting.

Coldfire tacitly acknowledged the fact that the allies weren’t acting out of complete selflessness, he mentioned how they saw the liberation of Europe as a benefit to all. Which in my mind does more than enough to show Coldfire was acknowledging the fact that the countries that sent troops to liberate Europe certainly weren’t doing so in a completely selfless manner.

His thread mostly focused on the soldiers, who were indeed shipped off to a war most of them wanted nothing to do with, and Coldfire mentioned that as well.

But when confronted with it, most of these young boys did very well fighting the Nazis, they put their necks on the line and a great many of them did more than their duty or their obligations required.

He also openly admitted that many of the Germans weren’t big supporters of Hitler.

And the claim that the UK was the “next on Hitler’s list” is only true because the UK declared war on Germany in response to the Polish invasion. Hitler made it pretty clear in his many writings he was hoping for peace with the British, and would have preferred they never go to war (same as with the United States.)

Hitler wanted to destroy France because he felt as long as France existed Germany could never have freedom of action, and he wanted Germany east through most of Russia because he simply felt it was the right of the German people.

Anyways the United States and to a lesser degree the British actually could have stayed out of the war if they really wanted to do so.

And talking about the Dutch collaborators really doesn’t serve any purpose in that post. You don’t have to talk about the entirety of a situation just because you mention the situation in general. You can talk about WWII without talking about the Holocaust, the bombing of Hiroshima without talking about the European theatre etc.

So any legitimate criticism you may have had about the factual nature of his post has pretty much been destroyed.

Your criticisms about the “simplicity” of his post are just inane and stupid. He posted in MPSIMS. Not some nonexistent forum we have here devoted to “Masterful English Prose”, in fact I don’t’ think I’ve seen you put anything down here that I would call “complex, artistic, creative, grand” either. If we start pitting people because their posts are “too simple” or “too straightforward” then this is going to become a forum of asshats and douche bags pretty quickly.

Saying we should be suspicious of anything that inspires awe is also so stupid I don’t even know how to address it.

I think part of the reason you pitted Coldfire was the fact that you’re just wanting to start an argument, which is a good reason to not even entertain your pitting.

I also think another part of it is you’re just an attention whore and are jealous you didn’t generate a post that received so much attention.

He made a simple appreciation post in MPSIMs, people liked it. End of story. Get over it.

My point is the opposite, that many Germans were bug supporters of Hitler, his “willing executioners” in Goldhagen’s terms.

Yes there were.

Doesn’t mean we’re still very grateful to our liberators, you pathetic little man.

Really? No shit? Many Germans were big supporters of Hitler? I guess that explains how he became the leader of Germany. And, you say, in fact many Germans were the ones who were his “willing executioners”? I bet coldfire’s gonna shit himself when he gets wind of that revelation! Obviously, he was talking out his ass.

This has got to be the lamest fucking pitting I’ve ever seen. Are they putting stupid in the water where you live?

My bad. You contend many Germans were bug supporters of Hitler. Totally changes the meaning. I withdraw my earlier attack.

Duh, and obviously he acknowledges that in one easy statement, “After all, would it not be shortsighted to assume that no German civilians suffered during WWII? Would it not be idiotic to think that no German soldier was reluctant to carry out Hitler’s evil policies?”

To anyone who can read it’s obvious he’s not denying many Germans supported Hitler, he’s just making the statement that it is idiotic to think that no German soldier was anti-Hitler or that no German civilian was.

Seriously, if you want to pit this thread you’re going to have to keep fishing because you’re doing about as bad a job as I’ve seen.

You really can be an idiot, can’t you?

Do me a favor. Go to page 5 of the thread and see what was said to a poster called virtual stranger, someone who had an opinion similar to yours. He came around. You see, that thread isn’t just about the liberation of the Netherlands; it’s a chance for some of us to honour all those who served. Further down that page, you’ll read about my grandfather. He left his new bride to go and fight, just as my grandmother’s father had left her mother to fight in World War I. Unlike my great-grandfather, my grandfather returned. My mother was born while Grandad was serving in North Africa and, as I mentioned earlier, was evacuated. Perhaps you’ve heard of where she was evacuated to – Tadworth, Surrey, England, near Epsom.

Sorry, but I am a little annoyed right now. It’s a fine, May day in a world filled with troubles, but instead of enjoying the day or doing something about those troubles, you’ve got nothing better to do than Pit those who served?! I admit I’ve Pitted a few trivial things, and I’ve considered Pitting a lot more, but you’re Pitting this?! Right now, I’m dead tempted to forget I’m nominally Christian.

CJ

You’re pitting a six year old thread? Mate, you need to get out more. Breathe the air. Smell the dandelions. Whatever, just step away from the keyboard for a while. You’ll feel better for it.

That’s well put, but I think “Go stick your head in a pig” would have got the message across more succinctly.

May I recommend this book for your elucidation. Might give you an insight into the Dutch underground and those folks would feel about this particular statement.

You know, roger, I used to believe that you were a thoughtful, reasonably intelligent person with whom I had honest differences of opinion. Giving you the benefit of the doubt and all.

I’ve since realized that you’re just a dipshit.

Whatever gave you that misconception?

I guess I wasn’t paying close enough attention.

So when can we look forward to someone Pitting puppies, seaside sunsets and love for one’s fellow man?

I’m working on it. But I was gonna do baby seals instead of puppies. They’re becoming endangered, you know. The little fuckers.

I think everyone should stop with the pile-on, for Christs sake. At least Roger Thornhill hasn’t crapped all over Coldie’s thread like that fucker virtual stranger did.

It’s okay, too, for him to express how his feelings about today are different from Coldie’s. Personally I think most people have taken the fact that wartime is, you know, complicated, as read, RT, and haven’t had to comment on it like you do. So perhaps this thread isn’t as necessary as you seem to think. Dunno. We’ll see what happens. Let’s hope it doesn’t get nasty.

So roger, how do you like your billy goats, gruff or chipper? :rolleyes:

I’ve been watching the History Channel a bit this year, and have been hearing the milestone anniversaries of 60 years ago–that of Hitler’s death a few days ago, and of the liberation of the death camps. For the first time I remembered to anticipate Coldfire’s thread, but I did not begin reading it until now, out of a desire not to spoil the anniversary.

I have a special interest in The Netherlands; there’s a small part of me that’s Dutch. After many, many generations in America that is genetically a very small part, but I carry a Dutch last name and hence tend to pay more attention to that than any other component of my heritage. Kudos to you, Coldfire for reminding us of what we have, and of the good and evil of people who would defend that or take it away.

Roger, if one looks hard one can always find something to criticize, but this just is not the place for it.

Funny! I just thought of that exact same expression in this exact same context. That’s probably because I’m constantly being reminded of the Hitchhiker’s Guide To The Galaxy, where that quote is heard.

Or maybe because it’s just so appropriate.