In theWhy No Valentine’s Day? thread, I learned that some kids don’t get to exchange Valentine cards or have a party in their school… because their parents are JWs or fundamentalists or even jewish.
It’s sounding like these kids don’t get to participate in a school activity, or in multiple holidays, because their parents don’t believe in participating.
Don’t the parents feel at all guilty for depriving their kids of interactions with their peers? Or of forcing their beliefs on their kids?
Do they ever stop and say “Just because the X church doesn’t believe Y , why do I assume my child believes that?”
Do they even try to examine their own beliefs vs the beliefs of their church? Are they sure they don’t believe in birthday parties? Or have they just always let their elders decide what they believe? And what their kids’ll believe?
I live by some pretty rigid religious rules (of course, I call them ‘principles’ or ‘beliefs’ to justify them). But what would give me the right to force someone else to follow my beliefs? And if I care about my kids, and want them to have faith, aren’t I undermining that by forcing them to follow rules without making their own decisions?
My kids have ended up taking very different spiritual paths than I did (they both went through confirmation classes, and made a decision at the end of that. My son said “OK, I think the church is too fucked up–I’m outta here.” My daughter is on her way to becoming a Lake Wobegon Lutheran.
I’m getting upset just thinking about over-controlling parents… which would also apply to an atheist family not wanting little Billy to get Christmas presents, or Unitarian parents shunning little Biddy because she wants to waste non-post-consumer-waste paper sending Valentine’s cards. So I’m pitting parents of all faiths… if they’re assuming their kids are little versions of them, and delighted to follow their parents’ church’s rules.
If it’s a religion like Christianity, I can see why parents would want to “force” their children into the faith, because there are dire consequences of *not *believing. That is, in traditional Christianity, it is taught that Jesus is the only path to eternal salvation, and that people who do not accept that concept are doomed to spend eternity separated from God. Furthermore, there is the Great Commission, which practically requires adherents of Christianity to tell others about it. For Christian parents of children, they see it as a moral obligation to raise their children in the faith, lest their loved ones be eternally damned.
In the grand scheme of things it’s really not that big of a deal.
Parents deprive their kids of certain interactions with their peers all the time. As for forcing their beliefs on their kids. Duh, that’s what parents do.
Of course not. My parents were never really interested in my opinions on the importance of solving long division problems when I was in second grade.
That’s a pretty complex question. I suspect that all of us perform certain rituals or behave a certain way in certain situations only because it is custom and expected of us.
Most of us don’t really call it “forcing” we just call it parenting.
I followed all sorts of rules as a child I wasn’t exactly happy to follow. Unless you can show actual harm I’m having a hard time seeing anything you’ve complained about as being pit worthy. Oh, noes! People actually parent their kids!
I am more concerned about schools that organize celebrations for this very minor, made-up, and once very personal and adult holiday, and then try to mandate that every kid has give a card to every other kid in the class. Does the Hallmark™ lobby control school boards now, or something?
What probably happened is that some kids gave cards out of their own initiative. It began being used as a popularity contest, to specifically exclude others in the most visible way. Those others or their parents complained (or it became disruptive to the class), and rather than go through the headache every February, the school decided to co-op it and make it mandatory to defuse all the drama.
Now? Schools have been doing this for as long as I remember, and I started first grade in 1961. Back then we didn’t have to be specifically told to give a valentine to every other kid in the class. We just did it anyway.
A child doesn’t get to make its own decisions until it reaches legal age. Children do not have the experience or wisdom to make informed choices for themselves, so the law allows parents to do that for them. A parent that enforces a particular religious doctrine is likely attempting to act in the best interest of the child as the parent understands the situation. There are some instances where I think the state should intervene–like abuse/neglect, or possibly when the parent’s religion forbids routine medical care that would save the child’s life. Birthday parties and Valentine cards do not fall in to that category.
Good points all. I think I was engaging in a little cheap therapy here, as I had over-controlling parents. But if I apply these replies to my own life the message that’s coming through is: “Kids get to be controlled by their parents/You’re now an adult/Get over it.”
But I’m still pissed at parents that assume they can subject their kids to whatever pressure and rules they want in the name of a (presumingly loving) God.
And no I don’t think “acting in the best interest of the child as the parent understands the situation” is an adequate excuse. What if I firmly believe flaggellatng my kid with a whip is the key to her salvation? Or making him wear a tie with “Darwin Went To Hell” on it to school? Or (shudder) home schooling?
One of the grade-schoolers referenced in the other thread had to stand out in the hallway for the duration of other kids’ birthday celebrations (which hopefully was a short sharing-of-the-cupcakes). That to me would be right up there with a whipping. (Mmm, Cupcakes…)
Fuckfuckfuck(now is this pit-worthy?)! Parents, you don’t HAVE to force your beliefs on your kids! Let them be kids and have some fun! Lighten up!
I hear what you’re saying, but never underestimate the appeal of the forbidden. Think of all the parents who shoved their religious beliefs down their children’s throats, only to have that child fall away from the faith, once they reach adulthood. It very often back fires.
You are a walking object lesson, with a strict religious upbringing, but it didn’t ‘take’ the way they had hoped.
If it worked, wouldn’t we all be devout Christian’s like our ancestors were? It doesn’t work, clearly, as evidenced by the number of people who do not, for all their efforts, follow the faith they were raised into.
Oh, goodness. While I thank you for indirectly pitting my extremely religiously controlling parents, what’s happening in that other thread ain’t controlling. Controlling is when they dictate everything about you down to your hairstyle and changing anything is considered extreme disrespect and disloyalty, warranting the silent treatment for a week. You know.
So the real problem is religion and not parents “controlling” their kids.
I really love how you shifted the argument to the extreme and bring up abuse. You win, nobody here is going to say it’s okay to teach a kid to whip himself.
We didn’t typically celebrate kid’s birthdays when I was in school. I don’t think it was because of concerns that some parents might object. Quite frankly, celebrating a birthday isn’t something that should be done in a class room.
All parents, at least those doing their job, “force” their beliefs on their kids. Even you.
My neighbor has pulled her two kids (a high schooler and a middle schooler) out of public school “because there is too much Satanism in the high school”.
Recently the boy told me he couldn’t spend the night over here anymore because his mom will only let sleep-overs occur at her house. He became very distressed talking about it, stating he has ‘asked her “why” 50 times and she won’t answer me’.
He watches Abeca (?) videos and answers questions in a booklet while him mom cleans house.
I sure did. But I am extremely proud of myself for at least trying give her a ‘think for yourself/ make your own decisions’ talk recently. Right after her 11th birthday I had that painful talk where I tell her about all the different ideas and beliefs, and we talked a lot about the Christianity that her Grandma is so devoted to. And I tried my best to pretend to be so cool with whatever way she goes. I was thrilled to hear her talking like she wasn’t going to change her mind from the path I had been laying out for her.
When they have Christmas stuff at school, I told my daughter she can join in if she wants to. We don’t celebrate it at all at home. My daughter goes for it at school. It hasn’t changed her mind one iota about Christianity. Valentines day, Christmas, Worship Satan day, whatever. Just tell me which kind of candy to send.
Valentine’s Day was the worst of all the artificial holidays we were forced to “do something with” as kids. We were forced to buy cheesy cards and tooth-shatteringly hard stale candy hearts, and write valentines messages for ALL the kids in the class, even the bullies. And all the cards say something gushy or stupid - I would have been happy if they had been as lame as even “I choo choo choose you.”
Believe it or not, there are few children who feel deep, romantic love towards one another in 1st grade. I’m convinced that the sole purpose of Valentines Day in school was to allow the teacher an 8-hour Kahlua-and-coffee break in their planning curriculum. IMO all elementary school holiday observances need to be axed (except for the most sacred of all holidays, Thanksgiving), and the time which is recovered should be spent studying something useful, like calculus or organic chemistry. Little slackers…grumble…
I went to a small, religious private school when I was a kid and most of our curricula came from Beka, which are made for home schooling. They do all subjects (math, english, etc) but are, somehow, christian-based. They all say “A Beka Book” on them, so people sometimes think “A Beka” is the name of the company.
I know that going to that school had me fail to learn a lot about the actual world, but I maintain that I got a better English/grammar education than anybody I know who went to public school.
That could just be a factor of the class size, though.
At my school, on Valentines Day we had to get valentines for everybody. We all would make our own valentines boxes, which were usually decorated shoeboxes with slots cut in them, and then we’d all go around the class at a specific time and drop our valentines into everybody’s boxes. Everybody. Boy, girl, whatever.
This is what I thought the day was about. Giving everybody a tacky card with Spider-Man and a bunch of hearts on it. The idea that you’d give valentines cards to only people you like, or that you’d ask someone to “be your valentine” and mean something more specific than “merry Christmas” never hit my radar until a few years ago.