Can too, and it’s not hyperbole. But as this is the Pit, I feel no obligation to jump through your hoops.
You are cordially invited to cry harder.
It really isn’t. Her politely-worded arguments are the socially-accepted facade, behind which lies the very real and now actively ongoing pogrom against trans people, using those very arguments as justifications.
I’m going to choose to interpret colifred’s posts as answering the question
The answer being blatant sealioning.
Ok, bud.
Glad you agree. Or are you saying she’s one of the good transphobes?
It’s an obvious shorthand for “denying their right to exist as they see themselves.”
If you know you are a woman and someone tells you no, you must live as a man, it’s fair to say they are denying your right to exist [in a manner that is true to yourself].
And that’s ignoring the people who actually want to kill trans people.
One semi-good thing about the Trump regime. It is showing us how thin the veneer of human decency really was when it came to right wing followers. They don’t have to pretend to care about others out there any more and, more and more, they are trying to bring the same attitude to this message board. Just when you think inhumane indecency has been pretty much buried here, it is brought in now in an attempt to make it “common”.
If you can’t see any wiggle room between “she wants to eliminate all trans people” and “she’s a good person”, I don’t know how to help you. No, I don’t think she’s good, nor do I think she’s calling for the extermination of trans people.
Maybe you should read @TroutMan’s more nuanced explanation, which seemed super obvious to me. That is, she’s not calling for killing all trans people, just not allowing them to be trans – they should go by their dead name, they should use the wrong bathroom (or, no bathroom, maybe), etc.
Considering the high rate of suicide among trans people due to people denying them the ability to just exist as themselves, I don’t see much of a difference between misgendering people and wanting to kill them.
An “obvious shorthand” shouldn’t completely change the meaning of the phrase.
If that’s what you mean, you should say so.
In what specific way?
What do you think about the phrase “Black lives matter”? I mean, all lives matter, amirite? That is, if you don’t understand subtlety.
What about “free speech”? Do I normally have to pay for speech?
Saying “She isn’t advocating for the active extermination of trans people; she just deliberately spreads antitrans propaganda and in doing so actively facilitates the efforts of those who do want to exterminate trans people” isn’t “wiggle room”. It’s denial.
And yet this remains true:
And we now live in a world where that denial of that ability - enforced by not just blocking medical care but by the censoring of all material that acknowledges they do exist - is being weaponized specifically to hurt them and drive them into the closet or the grave.
There were “good Germans” who didn’t advocate for the extermination of Jews either, but were perfectly happy to passively facilitate the blood libels against them and to turn a blind eye to their suffering. How much wiggle room should we give them.?
Suppose a government decided to declare that all references to Jewish identity, religion and culture were to be made illegal, and anyone who declared themselves to be Jewish to be institutionalized. Wouldn’t you consider that at least reasonably synonymous with not recognizing Jews rights to exist as a people.
I’m not going to read this thread, because last time I did it made me suicidal, but it appears from @Babale that scumbags here are making up insane lies about me.
So, here are my actual views on trans people: I believe they should mostly be treated as the gender they identify with; they should be protected from harassment, and from discrimination in housing and employment. Exceptions would be in sports, where it just isn’t fair for anyone who’s been through male puberty to compete in women’s events, and prisons, where choice of jail should be based on the danger to the prisoner and from the prisoner to others - taking into account the stage of transition and type of crime - not on self-ID or legal gender. I’m not a fan of self-ID for places like hostels and shelters either; I’d rather leave it up to individual businesses how to handle it, but they need to accommodate trans people somehow.
I support using preferred pronouns, do use them, and I think it’s right for employers to require it at work; but people shouldn’t be harassed, fired (in the UK anyway, where we have employee protections), get a visit from the police, or be put on a government database for saying on their own time that they define ‘man’ and ‘woman’ biologically (yes, all these things have happened here in the ‘liberal’ UK).
I think people should be able to easily change their gender on current ID like passport and driving licence. Hormone therapy and surgery should be accessible for adults who want them, probably with a minimal amount of gatekeeping to first make sure there isn’t some other issue going on. Kids should be able to get puberty blockers and hormones if parents and doctors agree it’s in their best interests, bearing in mind the decidedly limited evidence base and the fact many teens are still discovering their identity.
I’m sympathetic towards trans people, have transgender friends online and off, and think they (and everyone) should have bodily autonomy and be able to live life in the way that works best for them, as long as it doesn’t impact others too much.
Obviously I don’t approve of the Trump EOs on gender, except maybe the sports one (haven’t read it so don’t know how reasonable it is). If you think I want to kill trans people, force them to detransition, or whatever the hell your fevered imagination has come up with, you’re a certified lunatic.
I don’t really expect to change anyone’s mind, since the point of threads like this is having someone to scapegoat and demonise without having to admit you’re a bad person for it; I just want to get it out there.
Don’t bother replying; I’m not interested in debating with bad faith actors, and I endured enough bullying at school already.
If you meanies won’t let me dehumanize others and drive them to suicide, I’m going to feel dehumanized and suicidal!
And his “answers” generally show this.
This, pretty much.
Just FYI: this thread was originally titled something like pitting disingenuous bigots. It got renamed under the pit naming rules.
I’ve not been around all that much. The Trump stuff starting up again means I might not be all that much. So I don’t know what is going on. But if there are other posters who are pulling this crap, it would be entirely in line with the original purpose of this thread to call them out here.
And, yes, for the love of Og, the shit Demontree pulls is transphobic garbage. It’s the same shit she was doing when this thread was created. If it seems more palatable to you now than it did then, that’s not a good sign. Please be careful out there when listening to those who say negative things about a minority, and don’t let their attempts to seem reasonable with it persuade you.