They are, all they say is that he was there. In the Philippines, along with tens of thousands of others.
He heard the rumors when he was in Dugout Doug’s HQ unit. Along with quite a large number of others.
My dad was in no way a close confidant of Dugout Doug. Nor have I ever claimed that.
Look TokyoBayer was spewing bullshit and lies. I caught him out on it.
Well, now, DD, that you’re all good and acclimatized (acclimated?) into a thread you seemed curiously absent from for quite some time.
Or, you could type out MacArthur, just like everyone else does. Again, Dugout Doug was from people that served with him, not people 70 years later.
It’s apparent that you think this is so. More’s the pity.
You said those I totally to bolster your claims and then walked them back when called on it. Even switching from the “Doug” to now “dugout Doug” nicknames is doing the same thing.
The implications were obvious from your posts. I think you just to stop and walk away from this, let it die, and try not do it again.
But doubling down always pays off! … Eventually…
Mathematically, it actually doesn’t unless one is immortal and has infinite resources.
Doesn’t stop the punters from trying their darndest though. And DrD shows no signs of wanting to stop, best intentions of a good portion of the board notwithstanding.
Only if you win at backgammon.
Your cite showed no such thing.
Both you and TB made your arguments. I personally find TB’s more believable than yours, but they are both simple arguments, not proof of anything.
Yet you are the only one claiming that anything you say trumps everyone else. Guess who comes out looking better in such a situation.
I did some research and can’t find anything about Boeing sending civilian air crews to Mindanao. Does Dr. Deth’s question mark mean he’s not sure?
This is the only account I found of Boeing aircraft mobilizing to Mindanao. From Invasion of the Philippine Islands:
MacArthur was given US$10,000,000 and 100 B-17 Flying Fortress Bombers. MacArthur deployed most of his defenses on the northern island of Luzon and southern island of Mindanao, forming what he called “key or base point of the US defense line”.
So was DD’s dad aboard a bomber, even though he was a civilian?
The article doesn’t specify the date here, but begins the timeline on Dec. 7. I’m assuming this would be late December 8, Manila time, based on this FEAF article: the day DD’s dad flew in. Maybe he met Dugout Doug at this party. Talk about quick networking.
MacArthur anticipated Japanese aggression as early as late Nov 1941 when Japanese aircraft were seen over northern Luzon. In early Dec, Japanese bomber formations were observed flying within 20 miles of Lingayen Gulf beaches and returning to Taiwan, presumably making trial runs in preparation for the attack. As a precaution, orders were given to move the 27th Bombardment Group B-17 bombers southward to Mindanao, out of range of the Japanese bombers. This move was delayed, however, as the pilots were invited to a big party held in the honor of Major General Lewis Bereton, an event to be held what was to become the night before the Japanese attack, at the hotel in Manila that was also MacArthur’s residence. When the party ended at 0200 hours Manila time, it was 0800 hours at Pearl Harbor, Territory of Hawaii when the first Japanese aircraft dropped their torpedoes. As it was too dark for coordinated offensive operations for the Japanese, the Americans and the Filipinos had precious hours to prepare preemptive air strikes and strengthen ground defenses (furthermore, at dawn, an unexpected heavy fog over Taiwan would further hamper Japanese air operations). As it would turn out, this opportunity was forfeited. While Bereton did his best in getting his aircraft in the air to prepare for MacArthur’s approval to attack the invasion fleet or the Japanese bases on Taiwan, MacArthur never gave the order. By 1100 hours, American aircraft began to land to refuel, and it was not until then, at about 1120 hours, that MacArthur gave his approval, but then it was too late. At 1235 hours, Japanese Army fighters reached the airfield at Iba on the western coast of Luzon, destroying a flight of P-40 fighters in the process of landing. A short time later, the Del Carmen airfield to the southeast was also attacked, with its outdated P-35A fighters forming little resistance against the more modern Japanese fighters. These attacks would repeat themselves, within days destroying MacArthur’s air force. On 10 Dec, with air superiority achieved, General Masaharu Homma ordered the invasion to set forth. Starting on 20 Dec, the Japanese Army landed on Mindanao and then Luzon, quickly capturing airfields and other key strategic positions.
So the Americans were caught with their pants down. The Japanese started the invasion on Dec. 10, and captured Mindanao on the 20th. From the FEAF article:
Follow-up attacks on Nichols and Del Carmen fields, which were not targeted on 8 December, followed two days later, completing the destruction of AAF offensive and defensive opposition to the Japanese in the Pacific. A decision was made late that day to save the surviving fighters for reconnaissance use by avoiding direct combat. Fourteen surviving B-17s, after just two days of small and unsuccessful attacks on Japanese amphibious forces, were transferred to Batchelor Field, Australia, for maintenance between 17 and 20 December…
So he hitched a ride with his B-17 buddies, after engaging in water cooler chat, doing his civilian thing, while the Japanese rained bombs all over Mindanao. Either DD’s dad is super unlucky and super lucky at the same time, or he was bullshitting his son.
He claimed that other than MacArthur in a PT boat no one could possibly get out. I showed that the entire US Far East Air Force was transferred to Australia.
But yes, bullshit is often more believable than the truth. Witness trump.
He was not a civilian at that time. He was in the air corps.
The water cooler thing came much later.
So he wasn’t a civilian Dec. 8th?
Lord have mercy, who gives a shit. Even if everything DrDeth says about his dad checks out, who gives a shit. There’s no circumstance under which “I’m an anonymous poster on the Internet who claims my dad has secret information about World War II that will totally upend historical understanding of major events” becomes a persuasive argument, so dissecting dates and titles and medals is incredibly tedious.
What if his dad’s flag had a gold fringe? What then???
If you look at what I actually posted, the point was that continuing to argue this and insist on your rightness doesn’t do you any favors. But you ignored the point and just kept hammering away at the same thing, over and over.
In other words, that “jackass” thing in the thread title? You’re doing it again.
You make a point, and no, I have never claimed that. Sure a few interesting points like scraping the mold off your boots each morning, which at least one poster thought was interesting, but other than those kinds of things, my dad’s memories really have not great historical value.
The one that needs to be told this the most is you.
FWIW, I also don’t give a crap whether you’ve said this before or whether this is a 180 from what you’ve said before. I hope that folks will note this now and, if they think you ever said otherwise, take it as a complete concession.
Then he must have been court-martialed aboard one of Bulkeley’s PT boats. And stolen the flag!