I pit my Mom, Grandma, Sister, Aunts, Uncles, and Friends

Probably not. In this region, there’s a real prejudice against adoption. “It’s not really YOUR child.” And they’d probably think that a surrogate is bizzare if not outright “unnatural.”

Hubby hadn’t told me that he’d told the women at work that I was infertile. (He just forgot.) For weeks, I was wondering why they were treating me with such sympathetic consideration: “How are you feeling, Lissa? Are you okay?” I’ve had other health problems, so I didn’t really think too much of it, but once Hubby told me about it, their actions made a lot more sense.

At first, I was a little unsettled by using such a sad medical condition as our “excuse”, but it really was the only thing that stopped the harassment. If I had a dollar for every time I was told that I’d be sorry for not having kids when I was old and lonely, I’d be rich. But it was the smug, patronizing attitude of some of them which got to me the most-- “You just don’t know what it’s like. You don’t even know what you’re missing.”

Ironically, it seemed that the people who complained the most about their kids-- their behavior problems, how much of a pain they were being, etc-- were the ones who were the most intent on badgering* us* into having kids. I figure misery loves company.

Why is everyone on this board all of a sudden so dark and emo? What ever happened to good old fashioned normal people? I guess they aren’t here, or at least not in this thread. Or probably not on the internet for that matter. The only worse thing about being normal around here is the fact that I’m Conservative. But that’s fine, Conservatives are having 2-3X the children as Liberals. Maybe because family values are important to us.

Just remember, in the end we’re all slave to our chromosomes and they will win out

It’s not nonconformist if everybody’s doing it.

I respect this. If you’d be a horrible parent, then don’t do it. But I still think deep down you’d find that instinct, it’s in all of us.

Let me ask everyone on the board who agrees or disagrees with me this: Did you have a happy upbringing? Are your memories of your family good or bad? I ask this because when I decided to get married early by most standards (at 23 gasp) I had 2 groups of friends, those who said I was an idiot and those who were completely for me. The ones who were against me 90% of the time had parents who were divorced, and had horrible childhoods. The ones who were for me 90% of the time had great upbringings, with parents who really cared and were still married.

I get to do that all the time! :slight_smile: I call it my “Baby Fix.” Really that’s all I need. Then they start to cry and I hand them back to their owner.

But if everyone’s doing it, then you’re going with the status quo, not against it. Being non-conformist is the very definition of going against the status quo.

Do you not see the problem with this approach? The fact that we are even here means that our parents did decide to have kids (well, some of us may have been accidents). You can’t know how well people who don’t want to raise kids would raise kids because…they haven’t raised kids!

*Why * are you dragging liberalism and conservatism into this? How is this going to help the situation at all?

Just remember, in the end we’re all slave to our chromosomes and they will win out

It’s not nonconformist if everybody’s doing it.

Read the threads about about people who’ve used their babies as weapons to beat their spouses with, allowed them to drown in buckets of vomit, or about all of the posters who’ve had terrible childhoods. The instinct is not in all of us.

I had a really great childhood. My parents have been married for almost thirty years. I still think you have an overly rosy view of life. There are a whole lot of parents and grandparents out there who are getting more joy out of the posessions, or vacations, or television shows than out of their progeny.

*Why * are you dragging liberalism and conservatism into this? How is this going to help the situation at all?

Read the threads about about people who’ve used their babies as weapons to beat their spouses with, allowed them to drown in buckets of vomit, or about all of the posters who’ve had terrible childhoods. The instinct is not in all of us.

I had a really great childhood. My parents have been married for almost thirty years. I still think you have an overly rosy view of life. There are a whole lot of parents and grandparents out there who are getting more joy out of their posessions, or vacations, or favorite television shows than they’re getting out of their progeny.

:eek:
I don’t. Have. The Words.

You know, this is twice in one week I’ve entered a thread wherein someone attacks part of my lifestyle without even knowing me. I’m sure it’s not personal, but to me it is.

Really, I’m torn between dancing with my tongue sticking out and going, “Nyahh nyaah, I don’t care what you think! You’re an idiot!!” and wanting to verbally excoriate someone who so richly deserves a helping of their own smug superiority.

Let me see if I can pinpoint exactly where, Bob55 is wrong…see, the thing about being enlightened is prescisely about overcoming what millions of years of instinct do to your body because it may not be right for you.

Where so far just Bob55 is a nasty, judgemental, narrow minded (lovely individual, I’m sure) is when you begin to deride childless people for being selfish. Bringing into it your assumption that regret will ensue is insane. I’d rather regret not having children than regret having them and thereby ruining the life of an innocent person. WHY do people like you insist that the only way to be sure is to procreate and THEN find out if it’s worth it?!

For the record, my folks are split up, but that didn’t happen until I was older. My upbringing has nothing to do with not wanting kids. My childhood was fine. I have a pretty good close knit family who I was lucky enough got the message early on that I wasn’t going to be the one to bring more children into the family.

Wow. You’re kind of like a retard. Not wanting kids is “dark and emo”? People who want different things than you do aren’t “normal”?

Oh. :smack: :rolleyes:

Or maybe it’s because you honestly can’t fathom not living the exact same life as everyone else in your subdivision. Again, failure of imagination is not the same thing as commitment to a principle.

I think a brief review of any given day’s local newspaper will prove you wrong.

Um… some people have divorced parents and didn’t have horrible childhoods. Some people’s parents stayed together because they couldn’t afford two separate rents AND enough bourbon. And most people eventually get married and have kids no matter what their childhoods were like. I don’t know why you’re so determined to change the minds of the relatively small percentage of people who choose otherwise.

I contribute in other ways. Like teaching, and watching other people’s kids. That’s what aunties are for, and it’s one theory about the evolutionary value of non-breeding adult family members. Somebody’s got to have energy and take the kids for a few hours when the parent needs to sleep and not hit.

What baffles me is the incredible arrogance you show in thinking your genes are so important they simply must be propagated. You aren’t that special, Bob. Neither are your kids. You aren’t doing anyone a favor by breeding. We’ve already got six billion more just like you.

Oh–and parents married at 22, a good childhood, parents stayed married, no drug or alcohol abuse in the famili, no incest, no hitting, etc., etc., and I would have married at 22 if the opportunity had arisen. And I’d b a great parent. But I’ve never particularly wanted children.

Maybe she has! I know I have, and I love that smell like I love “new car” smell. It doesn’t make me want to go buy a new car just to have the smell. I mean, that’s a huge commitment for something that’s really ephemeral. Kinda like having kids, ya know?

I love holding and snuggling the new babies in my family, but it doesn’t make me wanna go out and have my own.

I’ll loan you mine. Two months old, soft, cuddly, adorable…

And on a good day, he smells like rotten milk and poop :D. I absolutely can’t understand why you wouldn’t want to experience that! (Yes, I adore my kid, but he does smell like rotten milk and poop unless he has JUST had a bath, and I don’t bathe him fifteen times a day.)

Bob55, you’re a putz. I had a happy upbringing, parents who are still married, a happy childhood with plentiful trips to Disney World, and I still think you’re a putz. A giant putz with a putz-filled cream center.

E.

Leaving the “Conservative” part out of it, what makes you think those of us who chose to remain childless have no family values? I know I sure do-- I have very firm opinions on the importance of good parenting, and I both balue and treaure my family. My husband and I are both caring, loving people with a very strong marriage. I’m strictly law-abiding, vote in every election and I always remember to call my mother. In fact, I’ve been called a “moralistic prig” on occasion.

So, am I automatically excluded from “family values” as you define them, being a a childless, liberal athiest?

I know a gynecologist that refuses to surgically make a woman under 30 incapable of having children, he has seen too many cases where the woman does indeed change her mind.

Ok, I’ll answer it then. I would describe my childhood as idyllic. I pity people who didn’t have a childhood like mine, where every day I jumped out of bed with joy b/c I was going to get to spend time with my parents, who, until last month when my father passed away, have always been happily married. (35 years.) I have supportive sisters who treated me better than any siblings I’ve ever seen, probably b/c they were so much older than me. My immediate family members are my best friends.

If it wasn’t for the fact that I am grieving for my father, I would say that I’ve had the happiest life possible.I have a wonderful boyfriend who absolutely amazes me with his love for me. I know that we’ll be getting married sometime, probably in the next 3 years.

I’ve never wanted children. My childhood dolls were always my peers, never a baby to take care of. I hold friend’s babies and I feel nothing at all. I do like children, I just can’t imagine having one living in my house. I would hate it, and that’s not good for a child.

When people ask that I don’t like, I usually tell them that I infrequently get very annoyed and angry when I hear repeated sounds, like barking, meowing, and, well, crying. And it’s true. I’ve never smacked a cat or anything like that, but you can shut a cat in a different room until you feel better. Can’t really do that with babies. Does that seem like a good enough reason to not want any?

To my relatives and friends, I merely say that I have absolutely no desire for them, and neither does my boyfriend. My sisters and I are fairly normal people, (though they are much older than my 21 years), but none of us want children.

I don’t mean to be rude, but I can see yours and others point of view that children are something you really enjoy, and feel are very meaningful to your life. Why would you refuse to consider my point of view that they would add nothing to my life that I don’t already have?

Hey, fucknuts, guess what? I had a great childhood, been married 25 years, have happy kids of my own who’ve also had great childhoods, and I am pretty much what anyone would consider to be a good old-fashioned normal person.

Sure you don’t want to take me up on my offer to spam the world with your syrupy prose, Bob? You can think of it as spraying your genetic material into the faces of everyone with an email account. Fits right in with your Reproductive Imperitive, eh?

Happy childhood, parents still together and very much in love, totally indifferent to the idea of having kids (my cats are more than enough for me at this stage of my life).

My wife had a horrible first half of her childhood, a wonderful second half (when her mom remarried after the divorce (for adultery and abuse), her stepfather took advantage of the fact biodad divorced her and adopted her legally), and doesn’t want kids because she hasn’t even had a glimmer of maternal instinct around babies or toddlers, and in fact hates them.

We’re both fiscal conservative/social liberals, and both very religious (she’s a Jew, I’m a Zen Buddhist, though, so it might not count for you.).

Personally, I think the best part of being human is that we’re no longer slaves to our genetic heritage and our instincts, and we can do things for rational reasons. Whatever those things and reasons are.

I had a great childhood. Mom & Dad had a happy marriage right up to the day Mom died. Never once did I doubt that I was loved completely and unconditionally. But I’ve never liked kids. I even disliked younger kids when I was a kid myself. Clean baby smell? Baby cuteness? I’ve been exposed to both plenty of times – I’m an uncle 11 times over – but I just don’t see the appeal. My sisters have done a more than adequate job of propogating the family genes and providing a replacement generation. I feel neither a biological nor a societal imperative to have children.

Bob55, you’ve described that as a selfish decision. However, your main counter-argument is that if you don’t have kids, you won’t have anything to enrich your life as you grow older. Don’t you see that’s a selfish reason to have kids? (Never mind that I disagree with it – life can be plenty rewarding without offspring.)

If you want to have kids, fine. More power to you. Just don’t be so narrow-minded that you think your choice is the only valid one.

Oh, and Bob55? Your insinuation that anyone who chooses not to have children can’t have family values is truly insulting. I have a great relationship with my sisters. I have an even closer relationship with my closest friends – we’ve been together for over 20 years, and we’ll continue to be part of each other’s lives for as long as we live. I even donated a kidney to one of them who needed it. So when you tell me I don’t have family values, maybe you can understand why I’d be just a wee bit offended.

Instead of posting a new long reply I’ll just say that my reply is exactly the same as Wnabtokio’s.

Wonderful childhood, wonderful parents, never wanted kids and still don’t after 27 years.

Am I selfish? Yep. I know I am too selfish to be bothered by having to take care of a kid properly. I don’t find that act in and of itself selfish - infact I’d call it selfless. Willing to shrivel up and die alone than to ruin someone’s life by bringing them into a horrible world and fucking them up.