Yes, I suppose I am a cunt, then.
Oh BULLSHIT, the lot of you. The NOW crowd and other groups of similarly intellectually challenged and honesty bereft fuckwits don’t like her because she’s a strong woman who has captured the limelight and she’s not the type of feminist they envisioned getting this far. Calling her stupid just reveals either your blinding bias or your own stupidity. Probably both. Just because she has a different stance from you (and me, by the way) as far abortion and related issues doesn’t make her evil or stupid. It makes her not your cup of tea, not the candidate you’d vote for. Do you really think that someone as stupid as you claim she is could accomplish what she has? She doesn’t come from a powerful or rich family. She didn’t have the benefit of an ivy league education or connections. She actually toppled a corrupt Republican power structure with a combination of brains and courage, basically single-handedly.
Boy, she has to be real stoopid to do that, YUK YUK YUK. Just like Bush (who I am not a fan of) is stupid. Even though he did better in school then your little darling John Kerry. Enemy = Stupid. How impressive an analysis. Almost as good as poopy-head.
You know, based on what Governor Palin had to work with and what she’s accomplished, she must be a freakin’ super-genius.
So, fuck the lot of you. You’re a bunch of intellectual dishonest partisan whiners who are all for diversity except when it comes to what makes a smart, capable woman a smart, capable woman. Except when it comes to ideas. You’re a bunch of brown-shirted sheep-herding cunts. I understand you’re all terrified because things are looking good for the first female VP. I understand it. And I revel in it. Your small-mindedness will have to suffer through 4, 8, 16(?) years of seeing and hearing her every day. EVERY FRIGGIN’ DAY! Young women will be watching her and say “Oh I want to be just like that smart, pretty VP (President)” and the demise of NOW and other hypocritical organizations will be accelerated.
Close your eyes, hold on, and enjoy the ride.
“Except I got knocked up and my parents made me go through with a shotgun wedding.”
NOW just got another $20 from me.
Excellent. $20 of yours that will help the Reps more than the Dems. Can you make it $50?
Nope, I gotta spend that on .308. Sorry.
Wouldn’t it be easier to topple a power structure that has been revealed to be corrupt?
Wait a second, Sarah Palin is a feminist? Cite? Or do you not know what that word means? It seems your whole accusation of “hypocrisy” towards NOW revolves around it, and that’s why it makes no sense.
NOW, like any other organization, has a set of values, the issues that they feel are most relevant to promoting women’s rights. Sarah Palin does not value those things and is working against their agenda. Why should they endorse her? Just because she’s a woman? THAT would be fucking stupid. They aren’t going to support her just because she has a vagina, since they do have to consider the candidate’s attitudes towards issues that interest women as a whole.
One woman’s personal success is wonderful, and should be applauded, but it does not mean that particular woman is congruent with what NOW stands for as an organization. To suggest otherwise, or that they should go against their own agenda to support her based solely on her XX chromosomes, is disingenuous at best, and absurd.
Also, she’d be a better role model for girls, regardless of her political affiliation, if she had integrity as a politician. I’d love to admire her but I don’t see much to admire, particularly. I don’t think I would have looked up to her at 8 or 16 either. Women don’t blindly support people they disagree with just because they are other women. If you honestly think they do or should, then you don’t know jack about women.
megellan, I have a hard time calling anyone smart and capable who actually utters the following, in response to the question, ‘‘Did you hesitate when asked to be John McCain’s VP candidate?’’
How can you defend such a completely stupid response as anything less than completely stupid? I am not an intellectually dishonest person. If something this asinine and vapid came out of the mouth of a liberal candidate my opinion of them would be low indeed. This woman is fundamentally unfit to be in the position to run for VP much less BE VP. Effective communication is a necessity for any serious political work, and she could barely even manage the Republican party line that I could recite off the top of my head. Her answers in that interview were terrifying–not for their conservative bent, but for their complete lack of intellectual and analytic rigor.
I like McCain. McCain has disappointed me because I once considered him my ally and his longstanding record of integrity has faltered. Still, he makes me smile every time he cracks a joke. He’s likeable. I can’t help believe deep down he has people’s best interests in mind. I don’t panic at the thought of him running things.
Palin is horrendous. She is not horrendous so much because of her politics (this doesn’t set her apart much from other Republicans in itself.) She is horrendous because every time she opens her mouth she reveals her ignorance and idiocy. She is incapable of giving coherent responses to very basic questions. Her responses and comments demonstrate a fundamental lack of critical thinking skills. She seems stunningly culturally isolated and obviously barely comprehends the concept of foreign policy. I wouldn’t even want this woman as my high school Civics teacher, much less my VP.
In terms of the ‘‘woman issue’’… please. I don’t care that she’s a woman. I didn’t vote for Hillary in the primary; though politically her platform was equivalent to Obama’s, I think Obama reflects my personal values on a deeper level… he not only reflects the ability to think critically–he can communicate this ability to people like me. People greatly underestimate the value that giving ‘‘good speeches’’ actually has in this line of work. Communication is ESSENTIAL to the duties of the President. Look at how W. Bush was derided for his lack of public speaking skills, and how this greatly contributed to the perception of the U.S. in world affairs. Then look at JFK and how his influence is perceived through the paradigm of his words.
If you insist on bringing my gender into it, I would have to say, while I generally loathe her uninformed political rhetoric, Roseanne Barr hit it on the nose on Bill Maher the other day:
She’s a feminist in the true sense of the word. She not only has a family, she is a very accomplished woman. One who has succeeded in what is traditionally a man’s world. To take a position that a woman can’t be a feminist if she is not pro-choice is simply wrong-headed. She has lived a life that should be held up as an ideal of feminism. And if she were a pro-choice Democrat, she would be. The conclusion that some people jump to, that she is stupid, is both unfair and rank partisanship. One should be able to admire what she has accomplished, particularly as a woman, and disagree with her on particular issues. Jumping from there to her being stupid simply reveals the partisanship and intellectual deficiencies who make that leap.
The 4, 8, 16 was not pointing to the ages of young women, but the years she will be on the scene after she and McCain win in November.
Olive,
You know I like you Olive. I’ve respected your posts for some time, even went not in agreement. So I was with you for most of your response, but then you went and expressed solidarity with Roseanne Barr’s quote. Tsk, tsk.
As I’ve said, it is one thing to vehemently disagree with Palin on the issues, but to claim that not only don’t her accomplishments merit respect and admiration (which they do), but they result in her very essence being disrespectful to women is quite another. I’m very disappointed to see this type of analysis from you. I expect it from a broad swath of the idiots on the board, but I was surprised to see it coming from you. Please don’t take that to mean that I think you should care what I think, though.
Personally, I think that Barack Obama’s ideas are the opposite of what this country needs. I find some of his positions downright disgusting. Yet, I can admire what he has accomplished, particularly as a black man in America. It’s absolutely impressive.
And just to clarify, my discussion in this thread has to do with NOW and the hypocrites who embrace them.
Whoa. Meltdown. Not that this election isn’t wearing on just about everybody.
See, I agree that Palin is a smart, hard working and very ambitious woman. I part company with you on how far she actually came, before McShame scooped her up, and how she did it. She approached every–well, both–position she’s ever held with a scorched earth policy. She got elected mayor in a tiny town, ousted everybody who did actual work on the basis of insufficient loyalty to herself, then promptly ran the town deeply into debt. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say Palin Does Not Play Well With Others, or at least anyone who isn’t in her church or a handpicked crony.
As Governor, she did oust a corrupt Republican cadre–and promptly created her own. She was a flagrantly greedy consumer of federal pork and of course the infamous Bridge to Nowhere, or at least until it became a political hot button. Then she was firmly against it. She’s a joke when it comes to fiscal responsibility. She copied her husband on official state correspondence. Remember the outcry when Hillary morphed from First Lady to official advisor and quasi-administrator? And for good reason. Nobody elected her. It wasn’t appropriate. Why is now appropriate for husband Todd to be right in the loop on official state business?
Palin’s also a rabid social, not conservative, but wannabe dictator. She supports teaching creationism in schools. She is adamantly opposed to abortion–which is fine, as a personal decision. But she wants to impose her beliefs on abortion onto everyone else. That’s where the overweening arrogance of ‘pro-life’ hardliners becomes flatly unacceptable. They–she–assume the right to remove religious and moral decisions from others. She feels entitled to use the full force of government to require people to live under her religious code. No assistance for pregnant teens; kids without adequate family support are just shit out of luck. A woman pregnant from rape would be required to bear the rapist’s child.
I was pissed as hell when NOW celebrated Jane Fonda once she finally grew out of her prolonged radical chic assholishness and started doing some reasonable, low-key work. Nice, but way too little, way too late, and no way it erased how she achieved influence. Same with Palin. She’s left her small political landscape littered with political enemies, former friends and innocent bystanders who were insufficiently loyal or useful to her.
Politics is the art of compromise. I’m not in the least afraid of Sarah Palin, Creationist Barbie, in the White House, even if McShame kicks it, hand on Bible, during his inaugural speech. Because this woman can’t work with anybody for long. She’s way too insular, too rigid and actually outdoes Shrub for ignorance and political treachery. Washington would make mincemeat of her.
This is not a woman to celebrate. She’s Aimee Semple McPherson with a rifle. McShame passed over so many stellar, excellent Republican women it’s a crying shame. NOW has jittered all the landscape in the desire to include everybody–stay at home moms, working women, pink and blue collar women, lesbians, women who just hate men, men in favor of feminism. But Palin is pretty much McSame’s paper doll, a focus for right-wing and evangelicals’ projections. It’s not too suprising NOW bobbled their announcement of support away from her, though.
Palin’s come a fair distance, in a very limited sphere, but I’m not impressed with what she’s actually done, what she’s done or why she’s done it. If she’s a conservative, I’m Madonna. (Whom NOW admires, btw. It’s so earnest it’s dizty. )
Now THAT’s an image!
When I write the Alt-History novel, you get 1/3 of the royalties.
Good for you. You’re living in the real world. Maybe you could show some of the idiots in this thread where the door is.
Maybe that’s a good thing. Maybe to change things someone has to say “Fuck it, I’m changing things and fuck whoever doesn’t like it.” I’m not saying that this is necessarily that case (and I do think you overstate the case), but whatever her style is, it works. I say let’s have more of it. And in your recitation of her accomplishments you neglected to point out that her approval rating has been from 65 - 80+.
As far as how far she’s come, I think you;re not giving her enough credit. She went from joining the PTA to being Governer in a state where the power structure had ruled for decades in a relatively short time. I fid that amazingly impressive. And that would be true devoid of her politics.
Are we discussing the same woman, here? Have you heard her speak?
The problem is that, in practice, what she produced was *plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose *.
Simply saying “Fuck it, I’m changing things” doesn’t mean very much, if all you do is play the same game with different players. But apparently you don’t care very much about that, as long as she makes the right noises about change.
Wow, you totally missed the point of what I said. Do you think Sarah Palin would self-identify as a feminist? Or are you calling her one because you think applying that label to her makes NOW look bad for not supporting her? I really don’t think Palin is a feminist and that she would agree with me. Your opinion matters less to me in this than hers. Being a successful woman =/= feminist.
The way she refuses to use her power to help other women is hardly ideal. That is why NOW does not support her. The abortion issue, that you keep harping on and that I did not even mention, is only one in a wide range of women’s issues.
I don’t think she would have to be a Democrat to get NOW’s support. She would have to be a bit less partisan about abortion, though. Like it or not, the right to choose is very important to a lot of women. Consequently, Palin’s stance on that alienates those women. Are they cunts for finding that important enough not to support her? Ridiculous of you to say so, really, esp. because I guarantee their reasons go well beyond just abortion.
And I wouldn’t call Palin stupid. Ignorant? Yes. Very much so. I don’t even think you could find a way to deny that. And ignorance in my nation’s leader is an unacceptable trait.
I NEVER SAID SHE WAS STUPID. If you’re not going to address what I actually said, then don’t quote me at the top of your post, please. You said that NOW and the women who don’t support Palin are cunts. I said, you’re being disingenuous at best if you think that NOW and women in general should just support her because she’s a woman. We don’t agree on the issues, and I’m an issues voter, not one who blindly votes for the person who looks most like me. You can agree that would be a stupid way to choose your endorsement, I hope.
Yes, I realize that. I was responding to your idea that young women were going to look up to Sarah Palin. I wouldn’t have, at any age. I was born a liberal. 
True feminists look not only to their own success, but to the success of all women. That’s what being a feminist is about. Palin does not do this in any way, shape, or form. In fact, she does the opposite.
Have you been reading anyone’s posts here? It is NOT just that she is pro-life! Get that through your skull. In fact, that is probably the least offensive of her positions.
She believes that teenagers should not be given accurate information regarding sex, a position that has failed her miserably in her personal life, and she still maintains it. Isn’t one definition of insanity doing the same thing and expecting different results?
She believes that shotgun weddings are an appropriate solution to teen pregnancies. This, too, will fail her miserably in her personal life.
She supported a system where rape victims are expected to pay for their own rape kits. This meant that underprivileged victims were not offered justice. This in itself is a grievous insult to feminism, indeed, to women everywhere.
I’m not sure where you get your definition of feminism, but it sure as hell isn’t from the feminists.
I’m not seeing the hypocrisy from NOW here. Dishonesty, perhaps. It’s all being drowned out by the whirring sound of magellan01 blowing a fuse as he struggles to make his point. Calling people cunts for dismissing Sarah Palin’s feminist credentials sounds kind of hypocritical.
I don’t think she is stupid, actually. I think she is quite smart.
I do, on the other hand, think that she is dangerous to have in a place of power. Even if we ignore the mounting evidence of her lack of respect for office and abuses of power, which we do not need to continue, her beliefs threaten my personal way of life. I do not want her bizarre Creationist far-right beliefs to become mainstream, and do not want to give her my acceptance that imposing her beliefs in governance (as she has vowed to do) is appropriate or desired.
I can see why NOW is threatened by her because I feel the same way. She has no regard for people like me - people who want women to be free to choose to have an abortion if they see fit - people who want children to have sex education and not fall into ignorance and thus the higher likelihood of teen pregnancy. Just because she is a powerful woman does not make her a feminist, and per policies in my mind make her quite anti-women’s rights.
I think Sarah Palin is smart. She is also devious and culturally backward, with many wrong-thinking beliefs. As such, I adamantly oppose McCain’s bid for presidency far more than I did before.
Turns out this is yet another lie, since she has since claimed to have taken this in for a family pow-wow, asking her daughters if they would be okay with her candidacy for the VP. So either she lied to McCain in giving him an immediate, unqualified, no-blinking “Yes” or she lied when she said she had that family conference to discuss it. Or maybe she just lied to her kids in telling them they had a meaningful decision to make. Any way you look at it, this is someone who wouldn’t recognize honesty if it bit her in the ass.