They seem to, every time someone says Trump will do X, someone else points out Trump doesn’t have the power to do X, and they respond that the Supreme Court will let him. If the Supreme Court is going to give him unlimited power isn’t surrendering to hopelessness the only rational reaction?
It seems that when it comes to Trump and his hirelings, the Supreme Court is a “one step forward and two steps back” kind of group, so when you hear a constant strain of “Why are you worried about that-the Supreme Court won’t allow it” you tend to call bullshit on any blind reliance of their actions.
No. We can make sure the fascists on the Supreme Court have no peace in their lives, same way that people are doing with ICE goons. They should be hassled every time they are in public. Restaurants can refuse to serve them. We can constantly remind them that their place in American history is with the likes of Jefferson Davis.
Likewise, we can make the lives of anyone who goes out of their way to support or protect the architects of fascism is miserable whenever they are in public.
It’s pretty effective, when enough people do it.
It’s pretty clear that short of organized, collective action, doom and despair are the only options.
For organized, collective action, we need motivation, leadership, and skills. The skills can be learned pretty easily, and the motivation is mostly there. Where there is an utter vacuum is leadership.
The obvious place to look for leadership is the Democratic Party. The need to figure out who the leader is, and focus on America rather than re-election. If they do this, re-election will follow. Unfortunately, Democratic leadership seems actively allergic to taking a stand, and even those few that are actually pushing back are inconsistent. Pritzker seems to be the best at it, but he doesn’t seem to get much press outside his state.
There are plenty of other places where leaders could arise: Labor leaders, the Church, celebrities, other super-rich folks… all we need is someone who can do it, and isn’t afraid of getting arrested, attacked, and / or killed. In other words, someone with both courage and good communication skills. Not a lot of those around.
I don’t really think there’s much that any of us can do without organization. We’ll have sporadic indignation, sporadic protests, sporadic and ultimately exhausting and ineffectual everything.
I mean, what did sane people do as Putin slowly took over Russia? What did sane Venezuelans do as Maduro refused to step down? What do sane people do in any country when their government fails?
Do you believe in American exceptionalism? Is our constitution so great that it can’t possibly fail like all of those other states have?
The answer, of course, is that our constitution isn’t anything special. It inevitably results in a 2-party system, and when one party is frustrated that it doesn’t have a supermajority and isn’t willing to govern in good faith, this is what happens. We are a failed state. It’s shocking that it happened in all of our lifetimes, but I’m sure all of those sane people who fled Iran, or Vietnam, or Afghanistan, or Russia felt the same way.
What can we do? We can keep fighting in what small ways we can, protesting and voting and using our limited power as consumers, but Republicans have been trying to put their finger on the scales of the ballot box for decades, and now they have a green light to ignore the courts when they see fit.
Democrats are obviously powerless to stop this. Republicans, and their voters, don’t seem to have any interest. You can hold out hope for the midterms but the smart move, and I’ve explained this to you before, is to start to live like America has already fallen, because it has. That’s how we move forward at this point.
Leave if you can, if you can’t then prepare for periods of hyper-inflation, prepare for massive problems with infrastructure (electrical and otherwise), prepare for mass unemployment, develop a skill that you can trade with other people when there’s extremely limited conventional employment opportunities, learn how to buy bulk staples and live off them, can your own food when stuff is in season, downsize your lifestyle, hell downsize your house for when heating it becomes too expensive.
Don’t put your head in the sand, though, and pretend like this is just politics as usual. If by some miracle Republicans don’t do enough to tip the midterms in their favor and Democrats gets an impeachment-able majority, then great! You’ve prepared for no reason. But don’t not prepare.
@Little_Nemo: You can’t solve the problems if you refuse to listen to people voicing their problems. You can’t alienate the people who are upset and tell them to sit aside: those are the people who have the energy you need.
Let’s say you actually think some people are so upset they’ve become ineffectual. You still need those people. You can’t do anything on your own. So what makes more sense: antagonizing them and getting them to work against you, or trying to convey you care about their concerns and have a way to deal with the issue, if they can just get on board with you?
Do you really think refusing to hear people and forcing them to argue more and more vociferously to try and be heard will in any way help?
I can’t help but read this whole thing as anything but deflected blame. It is very hard to fight back against what is happening. These people with their alarming predictions make you feel bad, so you attack them. (And I totally get that feeling).
I hope the worse predictions wrong. But I am not going to pretend they must be. I’m not going to become the enemy of the people who are most angry about what is happening. That’s just tactically stupid.
And it just makes my life worse besides. There’s enough things to be upset about that aren’t being made worse by my actions.
Putin and Chavez (who’s the one who actually seized power) were immensely popular when they consolidated their authority. Trump’s approval rating is in the mid-30s. You don’t BECOME a dictator when two thirds of the country hates you.
We have strengths the countries you mentioned lack - a long history of democratic tradition, and a federalist system where the central government shares power with co-sovereign states.
So you’re saying that fighting back is pointless because it won’t change anything.
That’s preemptive surrender that discourages resistance and empowers fascists.
Please, you and I are going to do the exact same things to resist. We’ll vote, we’ll protest, we’ll boycott, whatever. What are you planning on doing that I’m not?
I’m just not deluding myself that the courts or the midterms are going to save us, and I’m preparing accordingly.
If you’re doing those things despite believing that they won’t accomplish anything, and telling other people as much, then your resistance is performative and you are actively discouraging others from resisting.
Stop sabotaging the movement.
God you’re dumb.
For a non snarky response, I’m doing those things because my conscience requires me to.
Eta: if this confuses you, ask yourself why Democrats bother to vote in deep red areas and vice versa. Is it because they think their vote might matter? They’re not giving up hope? Of course not, they know their vote is meaningless but they do it anyway and nobody accuses them of sabotage, you dork.
Has it been demonstrated that people who would otherwise resist are so easily dissuaded?
One huge problem we need to solve is how to provide an offramp for MAGA folks and other Trumpists without validating their nastiness. We can’t magic them out of existence, so how do we re-educate them? A lot of what might be ineffective in motivating protestors could be effective in converting the Trumpists, and thus valuable anyway.
Of course it is.
I feel like you’ve never actually met real people.
I do not pretend to know what trump and his posse of undignified fools, greedy bastards, and ass kissers are going to do or not do. They will do whatever they can get away with to grease their palms and make their narcissistic, insane, demented leader happy. They could do all the fascistic things we are afraid of. Most of them would have to bumble their way into it or be manipulated by the smart ones among them. They could bumble their way into prison. To me, either is possible.
I will fight them either way because they are malignant, stupid, and appear to be intent on destroying the country. If there are people who will fight I don’t care which side of the hopeless divide they fall on. I mean supposedly Ben Franklin said, it’s better to be a pessimist because when things go well you’re pleasingly surprised. Thus I’m going to view anyone who fights back as my ally.
I think the real waste of time, if time can be seen as wasted here, is fighting over who is adituding the right way.
I see your point, but contest your numbers. RCP polling average today says 42.6% APPROVE of Trump.
My estimate is 35% completely love Trump and would shoot their neighbor in the face if he told them to. 30% hate Trump and think he’s wrecking the country. The other 35% have their heads in the sand and are just getting through life - they either don’t really know what’s happening or don’t care.
Trump (and more importantly those behind him) are counting on the hating, violent 35% to overwhelm, terrify and cow the 30%. The other “I don’t care” 35% are meaningless.
They figure as long as they can get the 30% opposition afraid to come out of their houses, they’ll win. Whether this works or not … we’ll see. But they are trying.
What the 30% of us need to do is to NOT be afraid, to NOT be cowed, and to bring as many of the 35% “I don’t care” along with us. It is going to be a struggle.
Sorry, I was busy today and didn’t have a chance to read the dozens of new posts.
But let me summarize them.
“Nemo, you are wrong. Because nobody in the history of this board has ever said that Trump is planning on committing genocide, slavery, and/or nuclear war.”
“Nemo, you are wrong. Because Trump is planning on committing genocide, slavery, and/or nuclear war.”
“Nemo, you are wrong. Both because nobody has in the history of this board has ever said that Trump is planning on committing genocide, slavery, and/or nuclear war and because Trump is planning on committing genocide, slavery, and/or nuclear war.”
“Nemo, you have repeatedly said that Trump should be impeached, removed from office, arrested, tried, and imprisoned. You have called Trump evil and said he is the worst President this country has ever had. From this, I have concluded that you are a Trump supporter.”
“Nemo, you said I had posted that Trump had a plan to legalize slavery and commit genocide. This is absolutely untrue. What I said was that Trump had a plan to commit genocide and legalize slavery, which is completely different in ways that I cannot articulate. Apologize to me for lying about what I said.”
“Nemo, you quoted something I posted which makes me look stupid. Apologize to me for making me look stupid.”
“Nemo, all of us who oppose Donald Trump must unite against him. Unless they disagree with anything I have said, in which case fuck them.”
“Nemo, I am posting something vague. Asking me to explain what I mean will be taken as a personal attack against me.”
“Nemo, I am posting something that is factually wrong. Pointing that out and posting the facts will be taken as a personal attack against me.”
You missed one: “Nemo, you are either highly delusional or you are a troll…and at this point nobody gives a shit.”
Yeah, he sort of missed my post I guess where I said I’d fight with anyone as long as they’re against trump. I also said I don’t pretend to know what’s going to happen good or bad, but we need to fight the fascists. ‘Course I never really mentioned Nemo in that post so…..
No, all of your posts fall under “Nemo, I am posting something vague. Asking me to explain what I mean will be taken as a personal attack against me.”