…I think a lot of Americans (in fact, a lot of people all of the world) think of Palestinians as somewhat…less deserving of life than everyone else. I think that’s why people tolerated their slaughter while “their man” was president.
I think its telling that people aren’t prepared to confront their feelings over this. And they bend over backwards to avoid talking about the issue here.
I think genocide is bad. I think it’s bad when MAGA are in charge, and I think its bad when the Democrats are in charge as well.
This isn’t about “the alternative”. You seem to understand that the Dems here were evil. Just a lesser evil. That’s an entirely reasonable position to hold. It’s one I agree with. Unlike you, however, if I were American and if could have voted, I would have voted for Harris.
But some people don’t want to admit that Biden and his administration were complicit with atrocities, warcrimes and genocide. I think they should. And it’s telling when they are silent.
And who exactly is responsible for all of that? Was it Biden? Or Harris?
All of that is the responsibility of the voters that gave Trump another term. That blood is specifically on the hands of the voters that thought there was no difference between Trump and Harris and on the hands that continue to give them the excuse that Biden and Harris were just as bad as Trump.
Of course; they are Muslim, and this is a nation that has always been hostile to Islam. The dominant strain of Christianity in the US is very much of the “all other religions are Satanic and must be destroyed” persuasion.
Are Biden and Harris and most of the Democrats complicit in that genocide?
Yes. The Genocide Convention, the United States is legally bound to prevent and punish the crime of genocide. Instead, the funded and enthusiastically supported it. Most of the killing was done while Biden was in charge.
And this misses the point. I was talking about voters. And the responsibility that the Democrats have in getting people to vote for them. If they are going to be complicit in warcrimes and atrocities: then they can’t be surprised if people use their vote to try and stop them. That’s it. That’s my entire point.
You don’t win elections without putting in the hard work. That means listening to your base. That means giving them something to vote for. “Voting against something” isn’t enough.
Nothing in what I quoted has to do with Gaza . . . but it’s telling that folks don’t want to talk about the Palestinians Iranians.
By allowing someone who is actually committing war crimes to be elected.
As an actual American I’d ever so slightly prefer being complicit to committing the war crimes.
…yes, Trump and his administration are responsible for atrocities and warcrimes. And I just talked about the slaughter of Iranian schoolgirls and their leadership in the very post you quoted. It’s literally right there.
You REALLY should have bought up the fact that we don’t want to talk about Lebanon. I think I’ve talked about that more than anyone else on the boards. There isn’t even a thread for them. The Trump administration is responsible for multiple war crimes and atrocities across the Middle East. They are evil.
So don’t vote for them.
Did you want me to say anything else?
Edited to respond to your edit:
By allowing someone who is actually committing war crimes to be elected.
Again: “low information voters” who were deliberately targeted with the message that “Trump would stop the war.”
As an actual human being, I think this is a really disgusting thing to say.
Yes, I’d like you to acknowledge that the people that were just too pure to vote for Harris are responsible for this.
(Somehow, the folks that oppose the Gaza genocide are “low information voters” now.)
You twisting my meaning really says a lot. That you live in a fantasy world where Hobson’s Choices always include a third option that allows you to preserve your purity. An option that the rest of us are not privileged with.
The thing about ethics and principles is that they don’t bend when you’re really upset.
Was it wrong to (a) launch missiles at all and (b) launch them from a hospital? Absolutely.
Does that wrong justify killing civilians, much less targetting them? Absolutely not.
Revenge is not a solution. Punishment is not a solution. Finding out the root causes and addressing them with compromise on both sides is the solution, but it doesn’t make people more powerful or get easily communicated in a sound bite, so it’s a non-starter.
Most people take feedback and adjust their behavior, but you’re special. Honestly I don’t even think I disagree with you much on anything fundamental, you’re just an obnoxious poster and your won’t fucking change.
Trump certainly wouldn’t have been elected if not for millions of people voting for him, including the people that were featured in that video. So if that’s what you mean by “responsible”, then sure.
But thats kinda like putting all of the responsibility for the failure of Toys ‘R’ Us on the shop assistant who gave you bad service last Tuesday. In a functional democracy it never should have gotten to this point.
I am only talking about the video I posted earlier. I agree that “low-information voter” isn’t the best word to use and is largely based on assumptions. I concede that. However my point is that being opposed to the genocide in Gaza isn’t confined to just the “activist class.” Its much broader than that.
If you don’t want to say things like " As an actual American I’d ever so slightly prefer being complicit to committing the war crimes" then the best thing to do is just not say them.
I’m not the one fighting for “purity”. I’m arguing that these voters had very reasonable concerns and that Mamdani committed to actually listening to them and acting on them. I’m talking about getting their vote. These are the easiest votes to win over. You just have to give them something to vote for.
Wow.
This is the third time you’ve responded to me today. It won’t be long, and it will be up to ten. Get a grip already. Your passion for talking to me is approaching a fetish.
So you’re saying that Hamas has discovered the cheat code to war, and is allowed to use hospitals and schools and apartment blocks as staging grounds to murder Israeli civilians, and Israel has to just stand by and let its people die, because shooting back at them would be unsportsmanlike.
That’s not how it works. When civilian infrastructure is used as a military asset, it loses its protected status.
Isreal has an obligation to provide evidence that a target is being used as a military asset. If they can’t, it doesn’t lose its protected status.
And in order to lose its protected status, the evidentiary level required is deliberately set very high. And they only lose their status warnings if they are being used to commit acts harmful to the enemy. But a warning MUST be issued with a reasonable time-period to stand down and can be only attacked if the warning goes unheeded. Once that threat has been eliminated, it regains its protected status and must be allowed to continue operations.
Are you seriously arguing that civilians in hospital are fair game?
Ye gods. That’s a truly appalling position. It’s not okay to kill civilians. It’s not okay to bomb hospitals. I don’t care how bad the baddies are: find another way.
I’m arguing that if civilians die in hospitals because Hamas uses that hospital to murder Israeli civilians, Hamas are the ones morally responsible for those deaths. Israel is under no obligation to let its own civilians die in order to protect the enemy.
Change Hamas to Iran and you can defend Trump’s war crimes too.
(As in, until Iran no longer allows their military to benefit from Iran’s civilian infrastructure that civilian infrastructure is a military target and Iran is responsible for those war crimes.
Sit down with your enemy, put everything on the table, and be serious about finding a solution, knowing that you’ll have less power and comtrol of resources going forward.
I just can’t imagine firing the weapon that kills sick people and saying, “someone else’s fault.” That’s really disgusting.
Hamas only EXISTs because there’s a problem. They are morally indefensible, but you do need to work with their root causes.
Please point out anything I have ever said that exhibits even a modicum of sympathy for Hamas. I haven’t. (Edit: and do remember that I don’t conflate “Hamas” with “Palestinians.”)
Your enemy’s proposed solution is not “death to all Jews.” That’s a convenient belief to justify the status quo. They probably tell themselves that the Israelis’ position is “death to all Palestinians.” But somewhere among these two groups there are sensible people capable of leadership.
Otherwise, what is your actual goal? Eternal strife and warfare? Extermination of people who brought it on themselves because they wouldn’t do what you wanted? Hope that things will change without any change from your side?