They were mainly embarrassed, and probably more than a little disappointed that there were no fatalities.
Heheheh!
We spent years not taking our kids to really nice restaurants. We’d take them to Friday’s and the like. But when they were small, they didn’t want to sit for two hours - it wasn’t fun for them or for us and short of duct tape, not a lot we could do with wiggly three year olds. When they outgrew the wiggles (for the most part) we switched our problem to LOUD VOICES - really, I’ve said “use your inside voice” probably 124,529 in the last five years and I’ll say it at least three more times today. And with the discovery of the humor value of poop jokes, it looked like they’d be in college before it was safe to take them out.
Yes, children choose how to behave. They are individuals and they make choices about their own behavior. If you think you can control others - adults or children - good for you, I stopped believing I was Professor Xavier before I had children, and they sealed any remaining doubts about my ability to control them. There is only so much beating of a child one is permitted to do without getting into trouble with the authorities. I’d be praising your friend for recognizing the limits of his own children and treating dining out with them as a reward to them for good behavior rather than disparaging him because he hasn’t had success making them miniature adults, or worse, chooses not to care and inflicts them all on us anyway. Eventually his kids will want to dine out and develop the appropriate manners that allow it.
Until you’ve tried to keep a toddler well behaved through a meal, don’t knock the parenting skills of others. With some kids, its a lot harder than it looks. (Some kids are wonderfully easy - its that individual thing again!)
It’s gotten to the point with me that I cringe when I see kids in public.
there is so much BAD parenting out there. Recent sightings:
waiting at matinee for Harry Potter–two little girls, waaaaay too young for HP (I put them at 3 and 4) were running around the theater lobby, screaming (it’s huge and there’s a slight echo). Parents? Sitting in the cafe section, doing bupkus.
Thanks, folks-for making our wait (me and two sons) hell. Nimrods.
Waiting at the orthodontist for my older son. Grandmother with infant/toddler about 14 months old. Woman is YELLING at toddler–saying stuff like “I’m not playing with you, keep that thumb outta yer mouth.” Nothing like knowing nothing about developemental age and abilities, Gram. :rolleyes:
Various and sundry trips to Jewel (local grocery)–kids yelling down aisles, running down aisles, whining and carrying on about not getting the Sugar Cereal of the Month etc,
In EVERY case–I blame Ma and Pa. I don’t care if Junior has ADD and early pyschopathic tendencies or both–YOU are responsible for that kid’s behavior in public. It ain’t rocket science and it ain’t all that hard to have well behaved kids.
You have hit a nerve with me. I only ask if there are prominent signs throughout the music store that say DON’T TOUCH? hope so.
I’m with all of you on the ridiculousness of parents tolerating inappropriate behavior by their children, especially in public places. I hate to sound smug, but it’s not really all that difficult unless the child is specially challenged.
My older daughter was easy, tell her once and she was an angel. The second was into testing each and every rule, not only once but multiple times. She was about 5 before we took her into nice restaurants because she was simply physically unable to sit still, and had not yet learned the “indoor voice” bit. It took a number of times of taking her outside while more well-behaved diners finished their meals before she got the idea that only people who sat still and spoke quietly were permitted the pleasure of such locales. And no, she was (and is) very smart, but also very very stubborn.
We also had an iron clad rule that when an ambulatory child entered a store that sold shiny, expensive, delicate and/or fragile items, said child was required to clasp her hands together behind her back to help resist the temptation to touch without asking permission. Again, a couple of repetitions of having to come outside if unable to comply were about all it took, even from the stubborn one.
Incidentally, this stubborn ex-child has worked in restaurants for several years now, as server and/or bartender, and is livid when people do not control small children.
Beating has nothing to do with it. I hope you were joking.
If a toddler is incapable of remaining well behaved throughout a meal, you have an *obligation * *as a parent * to **not ** place him/her in that situation and to **not ** subject other people to their immature behavior. I am well aware that children mature at different rates and have different inborn tendencies. Analogy: A child under 1 year old is almost always unable to control his/her excretory functions. That doesn’t mean we let him/her shit on somebody else’s carpet. We make other arrangements.
At least they had the good grace to be embarrassed. Most parents that let their kids run wild act like it’s their god given right to completely ignore their children as said children proceed to destroy everything in their path. Back when I was waiting tables we used to have this french extended family come in all the time with what seemed to be at least 20 children (it was really only 3 or 4 but it seemed like at least 20)between all of them. They were bound and determined to let the little hell spawn run all over the damn place, while us poor waitresses struggled not to trip over the little buggers as we delivered hot dishes to the tables. I gave my nice “now, please have your lovely little darling stay seated as we don’t want the little angel to get hurt!” speech a number of times to no avail. At one point waitress actually did trip over one of them. She was pregnant. She fell on her ass. Spilled food everywhere. The family from hell didn’t even apologize. Finally, I got the go-ahead from the owner to kick the whole crew out of the resturant and ask them not to return, ever.
I had never seen such looks of shock. How dare anyone call them out on their lack of parenting skills!
It was awesome.
On more than one occasion, when showing a very high ticket item ($250K), I would put on my “snobby maitre’d” air (with just a hint of a British accent) and ask customers with asshole clones to “please control your child or I will have to insist that we vacate the vehicle.” It usually shamed them into at least trying to control the little monsters.
Yes I was joking and that was exactly my point. If your kids don’t behave appropriately for the venue (and they are kids, there are venues where they don’t behave appropriately even when they are well behaved kids), don’t bring them. But people shouldn’t criticize people who bring their misbehaving cretins with one hand and turn around and criticize those who choose to not expose them to the public. Because then the only option is the perfect parents who have perfect children. And they exist, but they are rare.
Bolding mine:
I don’t understand what you mean by this part. Who criticizes parents who *don’t * take boisterous children to quiet restaurants? Who criticizes parents who *remove * overly “touchy” toddlers from retail establishments?
I went to the local Maul on Black Friday this year, something I usually avoid. It was the usual horror show. One sight sticks out in my memory - a woman crouched down screaming at a maybe 3 or 4 year old child.
WTF??
This was about 1:00pm - the woman had mounds of bags around her, so she’d been shopping for hours. Did she not have a clue that the child was going to get tired? Did she actually think screaming at her was going to make her stop crying?
I don’t have children. I don’t like most children, which is the reason I don’t have children. (And if anyone says that tired old line "but you would love your child, I will flame them to cinders.) I have no experience with kids, and no patience with them. But even I know not to take a small child on a shopping marathon and expect them to behave. I wanted to slap that woman up side her head. I felt so bad for that poor little girl. What a horrible person that mother must be.
The last followup article I read said his business was up considerably.
Oh, you horrid, heatless thing, you! I have four kids and cannot stand small children of nearly any stripe for more than about five minutes. Once they hit 12, they become interesting for a bit, then it’s loony time until they turn about 18 or so. Heartless bastid that I am, I could not even stand to be around my own grandchildren when they were misbehaving. Zero patience with yowling brats, zero tolerence for bad parenting.
Number one…When did I say I was talking about toddlers? I don’t expect tiny children to act like adults. I understand that kids are curious and they like to touch. Thats fine. That’s a good time for parents to at least begin to teach them about being careful and touching softly. I enjoy showing a small child how to use an egg shaker or strum a guitar. It’s great. When they run from instrument to instrument wacking them to hear the noise it’s time for the parent to step up and get control. When I took my kids out as toddlers we went to family places where we got served fairly quickly and they had a kids menu they enjoyed. When we wanted to go to a nicer resturant we got a baby sitter.
MLS made some great points. I never screamed at my kids or beat them. I asked them to obey the rules and tried to explain why. I tried to be consistant with consequences. That consitancy resulted in good behavior most of the time. They knew when I said. " Hey kids, this is the second time I’m asking you to be quieter? Do you want to go home?" I was dead serious.
My freind’s kids were older than toddlers and IMO he just avoided dealing with it. Sometimes to teach them manners you have to deal with it. Take them out and do what MLS suggested. Take them outside and talk with them. Tell them if they want to go out to eat they are expected to behave a certain way. If they can’t there’s no need to scream or beat them, just take them home after they’ve been warned a few times.
I recognize that different children have different temperments. My son’s willful stubbornness that caused problems when he was a kid has turned into a great work ethic and served him well as an adult. I just think some reasonable and consistantly enforced guidelines will go a long ways and kids are capable of grasping more if we simply patiently communicate with them.
That makes me sad. I’ve seen too much of that working in stores and that burns me more than misbehaving children. I hope if I see it again I have the nerve to tell that person how wrong they are.
When I read stories like these I feel lucky. My son who was spanked maybe 3 times in his life (he’s 14) has always had perfect manners.
When we went to resturants with him when he was just a wee tot it was great. The waitresses or waiters always took a shine to him right away. I never understood his charm. His mother and I always taught him to say “please” and “thank you” to anyone asking him if he wanted something, not just us.
I think his asking for “tobbaco” sauce from like age five until he learned to pronounce it had some thing to do with it. The server would always ask him “that’s really hot, are you sure?” He’d just smile and nod. They would always stare slack jawed at the amount of pepper the kid liked on his food. Almost always rated a free ice cream. Odd how many resturants have ice cream the waiters can comp.
Thing is I don’t credit myself. The kid was justy born charming. I pointed him in the right direction, teaching him right from wrong. He was aware if he is threatened with a spanking it is not an empty threat. But thankfully I had few occasions where I had to follow through. He just wanted to do right.
Now what I need is is guidance on how not to slap a 14 year old who tells his mother to “shut up” (I didn’t) right in front of me.
Oh, man…I remember that. I was on the receiving end. The only time my father EVER hit me that wasn’t really a light tap on a well-cushioned part of my body. And I deserved it. I never told my mother to shut up again, let me tell you…
jayjay
Amen brother. What I should have said was, how to I resist the urge to slap the fucking teeth out of an unapreicative little son of a bitch who has no concept of what his mother has done for him his enire life.
So what I did was subtract the “slap the teeth out” part and proceed to lecture him on the second … for about an hour.
I think that failure to teach proper manners and public behavior to children is an insidious form of child abuse. Kids know when they’re being assholes, they know when people disapprove of them and unfortunately many of them react to that social discomfort by ratcheting up their original behavior because they don’t like feeling wrong. My kids were taught manners starting with “please” and “thank you,” they were instructed in table manners, how to make proper dinner conversation, how to order from a menu and request services from a waiter, how to figure a tip, when they might legitimately touch things and when they might not and how to ask for clarification if the rules weren’t immediately obvious. They were also taught that if I received a legitimate complaint about their manners from an adult they would have an uncomfortable reckoning for it when we got home. I made a point of taking my children to a wide range of milieus and events, from neighborhood breakfast joints to fancy restaurants, from impromptu rock shows in the park to formal concerts and ballet. We went to Japanese gardens, sporting events, political rallies, local fairs, dog shows and any other event that looked interesting.
I maintained order by convincing my kids from an early age that I am probably capable of just about anything along with possessing a remarkable willingness to do whatever it takes to get my point across to a ne’er do well. I have a graduated series of “mom looks” and “mom voice” which makes it clear exactly how bad the infraction is and how bad it can get. I don’t ever raise my voice when I get pissed, I just get quieter and sound much more deadly. I also employ the salutary power of sarcasm and ridicule to keep uppity kids in line. It must have worked, both my kids are at home in pretty much any situation and my grandchild is the same–he loves going alone to restaurants for fries and a drink or the like, always overtips (mom has been a waitress and has firm views on percentages!) and usually ends up getting comped something since waitstaff dotes on him, mostly because his behavior is such a contrast to others his age. I especially love that kid when he goes up to misbehaving kids and asks them to mellow out–it gets even better when their parents are in earshot! Nothing like a condescending nine year old letting you know your hellspawn are aggravating!
I have 2 kids, both boys, ages 10 and 8. My 10 year old is severely Autistic, very very low-functioning (can not speak, still wears a diaper). He almost always behaves better in public than most of the allegedly normal kids I’ve encountered. We take him everywhere we go, and we know which restaurants he should and shouldn’t visit. His worst “behavior” problem is his vocal stimming (imagine “aaaahhhhhhhhhhhh” for extended amounts of time). Because he is clearly “different”, people tend to accept him. One restaurant we frequent is especially sensitive to him and his needs, and will make sure there is something on the table to keep him happy. He can’t color or draw, so the standard issue crayons won’t pacify him. They bring him saltine crackers (like crack to him!) or chopped veggies. We also tried several times to take him to the movies, which didn’t work out. So now, we take him to the drive-in theatre during the summer. The rest of the year, the 8 year old goes with one of us or his grandma.
My 8 year old learned early on that “Mommy means what she says” and he never gives me any crap in public. When he was about 3, I had to walk him out of the aforementioned restaurant and give him a “talking to” which resulted in him apologizing to the patrons at the tables near us “for being so 'noxious”.
Where I work I often have to remind children that “you’re in a doctor’s office, not on a playground”. I just don’t understand why the parents don’t do it before I get the chance. It’s not like I shoot off at the kids for no reason. I usually wait until the point where I would walk my own kid out.
Ain’t it weird that you need a license to catch a trout, but anyone is allowed to have a kid?