How would we do this sooner rather than later? You’re talking about the death of Billions. Would we set up death panels to determine the fortunate few who survive? Would the undesirable be killed in mass gas chambers? The actions you would have to take will make Hitler Mao and Stalin look like a trio of misbehaving teens.
Also, Even if we accept that the earth is overpopulated, I don’t see why the alternative is a tiny population of a few self-sustaining Hamlets. Why not let the population shrink naturally, with people in poor countires having fewer children, as they will do if they cannot support them. I think urbanized civilization is a boon and little short of a miracle. I’m not prepared to give it up, particularly since giving it up and reurning to a world of a few milion people is precisely the disaster we’re trying to avoid.
You first. The rest of us will continue to run our coal-fired electric plants, to operate our machine-tools, to turn out machine guns to shoot anyone who tries to make us stop.
I agree. In fact, I’d argue it’s the people in the suburbs who are fucking things up the most - almost none of my city-dwelling friends (or myself) drive cars, and it seems like the people having the most kids in this country live outside of urban areas. Plus, all those strip malls are fucking ugly, both aesthetically and spiritually.
When did “returning to a sustainable way of living” turn into genocide? :rolleyes: It seems the best course now is to discuss our situation realistically, rather than assume that we can sweep reality under the rug and everything will sort itself out.
No, but saying that the way something is, something always was, and something always will be is “evil” is one of those useless statements. It’s part of the human condition. There will always be a system, there will always be people in charge and people not in charge, and the people not in charge will always be screwed over. And what’s more, most of the people being screwed over will be perfectly fine with being screwed over, because that’s the way people are. We have something in us that craves structure and order, even at the expense of liberty. And if you don’t think so, you’re a fool.
Yes, we should discuss our situation realistically. On that, you and I agree. What I’m saying is that converting our 6.8 billion person urban planet into a collection of small self-sufficient villages is not a possible solution. Not without a lot of bloody social engineering that would barely be plausible in a science-fiction novel.
Actually, the suburbs were a fantastic solution to the problems facing densely packed cities in the event of a nuclear war. The populations of our metropolitan areas are now too spread out to guarantee total annihilation by a nuclear strike, and/or it would require far too many weapons to accomplish.
In an era of cheap transportation, distance means little. We see the downside of this only when prices increase, such as our local paper and news running all sorts of stories about the hardships of those living 50+ miles from their place of work when the price of gas approached $4 per gallon. Interestingly, this tends to resolve itself, as there was a boom in inner city housing construction at about the same time, and many of the the people driving that far either decide to move closer, or look for closer jobs.
Distance may mean little, but as far as environmental impact, not having a car at all would seem to be more beneficial than driving everywhere. I take public transportation to work, but otherwise I can walk out my door and within a few blocks get groceries, go to a movie, go to a bookstore, get coffee or eat at enough restaurants that I could dine out every night for months without going to the same place twice, same thing for bars, etc. etc. It just seems like a better model to me. Also, as I said, the people having multiple children do tend to congregate in the suburbs. As well, I tend to notice composting programs/buying organic/buying locally grown food seem to be much more important to urbanites, but it’s entirely possible that’s just the case in my particular area.
We define the system how we want. I don’t think the system is evil but the way it is going it does not benefit as many people as I think it should. I am not pleased when we allow the government to benefit the few ,while many suffer. Others identify ,often wrongly, with the wealthy ,ruling class. I wonder how they can. But they do ,to their own detriment.
I am an antiwar pacifist. i have very little respect for the wars we enter ,again and again. In that regard, the system is evil and wrong.