A common theme has been that it is easy to underestimate depression. There are also other factors. (sickness) I get it. Reading these posts has made a difference in the way I think about this topic.
I started with calling these individuals weak…that’s how I felt…hard to keep on going, easy to cash it in and call it quits.
Perhaps, now I see things differently.
Dude…lighten up. I didn’t say you were an asshole. I said it was a bit harsh; that’s all. Now that you’ve said you were joking (it didn’t come across that way to me and I’m not the only one who took it that way) it’s no longer harsh, but just a dose of graveyard humor.
A lot of docs will help you take that final step, but not until its a fait accompli, anyway. Before that, there’s lots of no muss, no fuss methods of getting where we’re all going, and there’s no need to involve accomplices, freak out the kiddies, or move to Oregon. Anyway, there are plenty of good reasons to move there that don’t involve leaving it so you may even consider moving there BEFORE you are terminal.
I realize acting proactively like that can be a new concept for my fellow depressives but I haven’t metabolized my daily Effexor yet and the world hasn’t gone gray again. Though being used to everything being gray would give depressives a head start in parts of Oregon.
Such as?
There’s been a lot of meaningful posts about suicide and depression here. I don’t think my views are much different, or that I could say it any better, so I’ll just sum up my feelings in a quote:
They tell us that suicide is the greatest piece of cowardice; . . . that suicide is wrong; when it is quite obvious that there is nothing in the world to which every man has a more unassailable title than to his own life and person.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
If you get in an accident and are rendered incommunicado, you really do need accomplices. And I’m fully convinced they gave my mom a bit of an indetectable nudge. They have to be very careful, though. If they’re caught, it’s curtains.
My family is here. Plus, Oregon doesn’t have Chicago…or even anything resembling a Chicago-like substance. That might be a premature death for me. 
(Effexor made my eyes goofy.)
And I’ll punt the fucker back over the net. If you want your suicidal pain and grief taken seriously ever again then the next time you cry wolf I’ll step out of that monitor screen and reprogram you with a big stick with a nail in it. Anything unfair or unreasonable in that?
Aside to mods: I do not really possess Internet teleportation technology, which is a shame for many reasons, of which the desire to inflict bodily harm on Inigo is not even in the top hundred
Spikin’ it right back at ‘cha. You haven’t got all the facts, you only saw the result of the tail end of a psychotic break. Call it crying wolf if it helps you fit the event comfortably into your world. A geocentric universe worked for a lot of peoples’ observations for a long time, but that was nowhere near the truth either. Believe what you want, but in this case I’ll just say that you’ve got the wrong impression of what happened.
At the time I was totally convinced that what I spoke was the truth and that the stated course of action was the only correct one. Depression and psychosis fueled the delusion and years of despair robbed me of any hope that maybe I was simply confused again. I wasn’t in the real world. I’m drugged now and greyed out, and a lot more aware of what’s going on with me. Not much chance of it happening again.
What, you mean within the last twenty-four hours when you posted your cry-wolf post against someone who was only trying to be comforting? Not buying it, asshole.
Yeah, I have a lot of sympathy for people who feel suicide is the only way, but this kind of thing bugs me. The kid I know of who killed himself by sitting in the car and blowing his head off with a rifle, *knowing * his ex who he mad at would be the first to find him.
And then my mom who contemplated it all the time I was growing up would think of ways and how they would impact how much clean up Pop and us kids would have to do. :smack:
Well I hate to paint things in black and white but either you failed to read the explanations (one for Kimstu & the other for Kalhoun) for comprehension or you’re being the asshole. Don’t forget to wipe your chin, buttface.
I may have some sympathy for those who feel suicide is the only option left, but it’s still a cowards way out. Death is easy, life is hard and it doesn’t take bravery to do something thats easy. And dont give me that crap about facing the unknown or having the guts to pull the trigger. Killing yourself can take what, all of 10secs if done right? Life can last YEARS. Deal with that and I might be impressed*.
As well, the whole “It’s their life” argument is just more crap. Unless your living on the street and all your family is dead and gone… chances are someone depends on you either emotionally or some other way. You know I’m a Father, and not a single person on here would think it okay for me to just up and leave my wife and kids behind and move overseas without telling them, talking to them, or giving them any support for the rest of my life. But based on some arguments here, if I just killed myself instead it would be okay. Give me a break with that.
*The only exception on this is for those terminally ill and in pain. I think suicide in those cases is a mercy.
You know this from your extensive dying experience?
This topic brings out some of the most ghastly, ignorant, callous people on the boards.
Oh, you might be impressed. How generous of you. How kind. How loving.
Just because you are incapable of imagining the pain some of these people are in doesn’t mean that the pain doesn’t exist. It means you are ignorant of it. And then you judge from your ignorance. And you smirk and say that you’ll graciously make exceptions for people who really really really really really deserve it.
Yuck.
You know, I really do see the point those are making against the OP, but I just can’t get myself behind it. I mean, if a person is terminally ill or facing some horrible disease that will make their life miserable (Alzheimer’s, perhaps), I can certainly understand and perhaps even completely justify the choice of suicide. And while I agree that mental health problems are just as- if not more so- damaging than any physical disease, I for some reason can’t rationalize justifying that.
I know a family that were (and are, to my knowledge) fairly dedicated Christians. Unable to have kids, they decided to adopt- and adopt they did: 7 kids from all around. A wonderful gesture. The wife didn’t work, but stayed home with the kids, home schooling them, etc. and so forth.
The husband was perfectly (aside from him after-the-fact-obvious psychological problems) healthy, but one day he hanged himself. In the living room. In the FAMILY living room. From a rafter. An hour before he knew the wife and all the kids would be coming home to find him.
How is that NOT selfish? Not only did he off himself in such a way that he has likely screwed up his kids and poor wife for life (seeing Daddy hanging from a rafter likely isn’t going to be good for anyone), but now his wife who hasn’t worked in 20 years has to find a job to support her family of 8. Oh, and while he had a life insurance policy, she gets nothing because he killed himself.
Perhaps my opinion is colored by my closeness to the above situation- in fact, I know it is and I won’t deny that- I just can’t say that suicide is the most unselfish thing for a person to do. It’s not when you’ve got a family- particularly one that depends on you.
They are a physical disease. In the case of the guy I mentioned upthread, they can be a permanent, debilitating physical disease that is genetic and incurable.
This guy had one sibling who had been in and out of prison (and was on the lam for violent crimes), and another sibling and parents who had been in and out of mental hospitals.
This thread boils down to a bunch of people saying, “Gosh, sucks to be you, huh?” and then wandering away feeling smug.
I’ve only had suicidal-type depression once for a few months, and I had every reason to believe that it would eventually go away. Some people do not have reason to believe it will ever go away.
For those people, their lives are the tragedy, not their deaths.
I’m astonished how glib some of these posts have been. I recognize how incredibly lucky I’ve been. Do you?
What do people have to say, other than nasty, unproductive name-calling, to this very interesting contention by Dob?
It’s OK to kill yourself, abandon and devastate your family emotionally and financially, leave a corpse for your family to find, because suicide is a valid choice and no one has the right to judge… but you’re a deadbeat dad if you just couldn’t take it anymore, and shafted your family by disappearing, leaving them with no support?
And you’ll note that I didn’t object to that part of your post. Just the part where he should have stopped the suicide, and has no right to feel hurt because he didn’t. That was too much. Don’t guilt-trip the living because someone chose to die. That was the person’s choice, and telling the survivors they should feel bad because they didn’t stop it is cruel.
Yeah, you work to prevent suicide. You’re a professional and work with people you know are suicidal. Are you to blame if the people kill themselves anyway? I didn’t think so. Neither is the OP. He is dealing with anger, grief, and confusion. Why not show him some compassion and not lay an undeserved pile of blame on him to make him feel worse? I’m sure he would have done something to prevent it if he’d had that power. How can you doubt that? Just because you disagree with his opinion about suicide, doesn’t give you the right to try to hurt him in a very real way with blame and guilt he doesn’t deserve.
And you get my Pit feelings in response to your Pit feelings. He very likely could not have prevented it, and he can pass judgment on whomever he wants, and you can call him on it, but if you’re an asshole and go too far, someone’s going to tell you that, too.
Perhaps it does translate to a physical disease as well, I wouldn’t personally know as I’ve never suffered from that in my life and for that I am tremendously thankful.
That said, you didn’t respond to the anecdote in my post and the only reason I point that out is because it is that situation that gives me the opinion I hold. How is what he did NOT selfish? I’m genuinely asking and open to answers, but as I presently see it what he did was the height of selfishness. He may have been ill, but he did something that caused such tremendous horror, pain, and long term suffering for those around him that I just don’t see how it can be anything but utterly selfish.
I will ask though how precisely I was glib? I said I understand the points you guys are making, but I simply can’t rationalize them considering the situation I’m close to. How on earth is that a shallow argument?
Missed the edit window to add:
That very well may be the case and it’s absolutely horrible that anyone would feel that that was the case. That said, the death is a tragedy to the family that depends on them. Children that will grow up without parents to be there for them, let alone to pay for their food and clothing. Spouses that will forever feel guilty for not stopping them, all while trying to work to make a mortgage payment alone. The 15 year old kid that stumbled in to find his father with a shotgun blast to the face.
Like I said, I can understand the view point of the person that kills them and I can sympathize, though it sounds as though my sympathy isn’t needed. I do believe you have every right to do with your body what you see fit, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that the choice you make has repercussions for those around you and can therefore be incredibly inherently selfish.
If you haven’t worked out any of your own I ain’t helping, poser.