I just got laid off from my job at a major non-profit - a job I loved and adored (with the company for 4 years, this was my second position, and I have never been happier). I am currently hunting for a position in another non-profit, and the positions are few and far between right now. I also live in your town - should you be interested in pursuing something like this, even if it’s something you’d like volunteers for, please let me know. I think it’s a fabulous idea.
As far as ‘dealing with it’, I am having a very hard time not working and I’m only on week 2. I don’t know what to do with myself. I get up in the morning with my husband and son (who is 2), get them ready, my husband goes to work and drops our son off at daycare (we are fortunate to be able to keep him in it for quite awhile, luckily, and don’t want to disrupt his routine.).
If I do something that requires leaving the house immediately after they do, I seem to be more productive during the day. Otherwise, I tend to veg in front of the TV with my laptop and surf the job sites over and over again, expecting something new to pop up. I have hobbies, I plan on spending extra time with my son, but I am not doing well without having work to go to.
As far as ‘work ethics’ go, I used to have a shitty work ethic. I did my jobs, had many of them, but until I found something I loved, I did the bare minimum. When I found my niche, going to work and working hard made me feel good. Times have been stressful, there have been wonderful times and horrible times, but I never once doubted why I was there. I have been blessed with two wonderful managers, both of whom made it clear that my family should always come first, and actually proved that to me. My work ethic grew stronger over time, and at this point, I feel as if I could be in a job I hate and still produce quality work because it’s about having respect for myself and the work I do.
Does it mean I wouldn’t like to have more time to quilt or read or write or hell, just play Freecell? Well, I have that time now, and dammit, I miss my work. I can not imagine spending all of my days like this. I had a friend let go today, so she and I are going to become gym buddies, and we’re going to help each other out. I am going to start volunteering with several non-profits in the hope of building relationships with them if they have job openings in the future. But long-term? I would fucking lose my mind.
Did you get my active copy from the Dollhouse? I feel the same way a lot (as do some of your other posts elsewhere). I still press on and deal with it. But for the most part, office conversations are nothing unique, and are most of the time, not that beneficial, when it’s the same old sob stories day in and day out. Some days I want to get my psychiatrist license/degree. If I’m going to play Dr. Phil, might as well make it official.
Oh, don’t worry - people who don’t happen to be provided for learn long before age 40 how to suck it up and slump their way into work.
What absolutely drives me crazy every day about my library patrons: so, you’re homeless. You don’t want to work (trust me, they come in looking for day laborers - some of you can’t work, most of you just don’t care to.) But to me, the hardest damned thing about holding down a job is showing up in the morning. Rolling out of bed. Being there. But these guys are there before I am, waiting at the door! They have that down pat! They have mastered what is, for me, the hardest part of the day… and yet, they’d rather be bored to fucking tears than get a job! They’d rather sit around bugging me for the newspaper than learn something from our million volumes that would make them useful members of society. (Of course, and I shouldn’t have to make these disclaimers, some of them are bugfuck crazy. And I’ve seen some of them go on medication, provided by some quirk of the underfunded state, and become functioning members of society. It breaks my heart that mental health services have been gutted over the past few decades. Obviously these are not the people I’m talking about, and you can delete your rant now.) But if you have mastered “showing up”, don’t tell me you can’t master “staying there”.
I’ve seen a lot of answers here from people who have a good work ethic, or who have forced themselves to have one by Dealing With It.
I have a lousy work ethic. I don’t like working, not one bit. I would much rather shop, get pedicures, and work on my ground strokes. Then have a nice mojito by the pool. I don’t feel that a man should have to break his back to earn his day of leisure. (That came from some song, probably quoted out of context. I can’t remember anything else about the song.)
During periods of unemployment (I’ve been laid off a couple of times, and while others were moaning and groaning I was turning cartwheels out the door), I did all that and enjoyed it. Having to find another job was a drag–although looking for work is a lot more trying than actually working, for me.
I think if circumstances hadn’t forced me to work, I wouldnt’ have. Unfortunately, I would rather have been homeless than live with my mother, and I don’t have enough moxie to beg on the streets, and I do have a set of job skills that always gets me hired sooner than later.
This is not to say I don’t like the jobs. I have a job now that I would probably do for free, except I would do less of it, and at different hours. But there’s always something I hate about the job. The air conditioning, or the flickering fluorescent lights, or some stupid dress code–I can wear sandals if they have heels, but not if they’re flat?–or getting in between bickering gossipy coworkers.
I also have the deep conviction that adults own their living space, which means I’ve had to be responsible enough to pay the mortgage since I was 25. I know this is twisted. People rent apartments and houses their whole lives. I guess I just have authority issues. It all seems sort of parental to have some landlady telling you you can’t have a cat, or whatever.
I seem to notice something about some folks’ version of the work ethic. It’s not about people needing you or what you do. That’s depressing. First and foremost it’s about It’s Your Job. Only then, and only sometimes, do they mention that something needs doing.
In other words, work ethic to these folks is not about an exchange of needs - you need money, they need completed tasks - but about the idea of a job as such. Social roles you follow in part because they’re necessary, but also because they’re there.
I’m going to guess this is the blue-collar ethic some mention - where not overthinking things is a value, and roles are roles (just like rules are rules).
If we could have the choice to have it be more about an exchange of needs if that means more to us, that would be great.
And yes, I admit I was very laxly prepared for growing up. I was treated like a genius till about 12, and then I guess I failed to fulfill some unstated expectation or meet some mysterious stage of development or another, nobody told me, and after that I was treated like 50% genius, 50% failure.
I suppose if I had thought anybody cared all the time - not just when I performed to satisfy them - I wouldn’t be here flinging all this shit at you and I would have some idea of what it is to Get On With It, and more importantly, why I should. As it is I don’t even care about myself all the time. Maybe it’s asking too much.
It’s still confusing, though - some of you are saying we can write our own tickets in life and some are saying work is work is work and you can’t ever change it.
All right, this is as far as I’ve gotten in this thread so forgive me if I end up being completely off topic. I had originally intended to reply to the other thread but found it locked. Now, I have the (un)fortunate experience of knowing exactly what the OP’s going through (well, as much as anyone can know another person’s experience) so I feel fit to give him some advice.
That quote above gives me the perfect starting off point. I have a dear friend who will listen for hours about my problems, give me advice, console me, whatever I need at the moment. Having struggled with bipolar disorder since adolescence, sometimes I dumped way too many problems on him and had a lot of pity parties. His advice, eventually, turned into the succinct phrase “suck it up.” He would repeat that, many times, when I would tell him my tales of woe. One day I confronted him about it, saying it was the most useless advice one could give another person. And he responded that he was tired of trying to fix my problems for me, giving me constructive ways to meet my goals, offering the best advice he could give, because I always shot his ideas down. Whatever his response, I would give him some some reply along the lines of, [whining]but that’s too haaard[/whining].
And I think you’re doing exactly what I was doing only a few short years ago. Instead of making an effort to improve yourself, you’re coming up with excuses about why you shouldn’t have to. This is not an indictment of your character, as I said I’ve been in exactly the same place. I often get really pissed that I suffer from this mental illness that makes everything, even doing the dishes, more difficult for me than for a normal person. But you can’t let that control your life. Everyone, even the seemingly well-off (whether financially, emotionally, physically), everyone faces challenges in their life. True, some people have harder problems while some people slip through life apparently unscathed. But that’s the way life is.
If you want to be satisfied with your life, you need to make it happen. And I’ll tell you, as will anyone on this board, it won’t be easy. It will suck mightily at times, and it will seem like it will never get better, but you have to delight in small victories. And come to terms with the fact that you might not end up living the ideal life, things might not turn out perfectly. But that shouldn’t stop you from doing something. As I told my dear friend when the reality of his words sunk in, I’m going down swinging.
Am I where I want to be with my life? No. Did things magically change the moment I decided I wanted to change them? My external situation didn’t, but internally things did. My outlook changed.
So this is my advice to you. Take a good long look at your life, since you’re obviously unsatisfied. Make a list, if that’s your thing. What do you want to change, how do you want to improve your life? Increase your self esteem, have a healthy romantic relationship, become independent from your parents, run a marathon, climb Mt. Everest? Then take the steps towards those goals. Start slowly, and be proud of even the little things you’ve accomplished.
For example, anyone who checks out my posting history can see that I suffer from social anxiety and have been painfully shy most of my life. Guess what I do for a living now? I’m a server. That’s right, my entire job is to interact with strangers. And that, in return, has made me so much more comfortable being myself in public without worrying what others think about me. I go to restaurants or parks alone now, in fact I just went to the movies alone for the first time only last week. Is it silly that I’m proud of the fact that I can go to the movies alone without feeling uncomfortable? No. Because that’s a huge step for me.
Similarly, I’m still overweight and self-conscious about my body. But last summer, I made an effort to both improve my appearance and become more comfortable in my own skin. Not only have I lost weight, but I even wear tank tops and shorts now. Tank tops and shorts! It’s been years since I’ve felt comfortable being so exposed.
I’ve also struggled academically because of my mental illness. You’re talking to a girl who’s been dismissed from the university twice because I became so depressed I simply stopped going to classes. And one day this winter I decided to give things another shot, enrolled in a program at a new school, and have so far received an A and a B for my classes last term.
Whatever you decide to do to make yourself happier, just get up in the morning and commit to it, whatever it might be. Commit to volunteer work Saturday afternoon so that you might be able to put your own suffering into perspective. Yes, I know that your life is difficult, but if you see what it’s like for those less fortunate than yourself, maybe that will make your problems easier to deal with. Find a job, even if you’re stocking books at a bookstore, just to know that you, personally, earned every penny of your paycheck. By all means, enroll in therapy or get medication to make your emotional issues easier to deal with. You’re lucky enough that your family can afford that. I had to spend months filling out paperwork and waiting hours upon hours to speak to doctors because I had to go through a community program that offers services on a sliding scale. Let me tell you, it took 3 months to get into that program, and a shit ton of bureaucratic bullshit to do it. Be thankful you don’t have to go that route.
But all everything really boils down to is suck it up. Gain control of your life, however you decide to do it. Come to terms with your failures and shortcomings. Accept that at this point in your life, you may not accomplish everything you want to. But know that any step you take, no matter how small, is a step in the right direction.
I guess the first step is to learn to take blunt advice and not ask questions. Just feel the resentment and learn to do what you hate over and over again, even if you hate yourself and life too.
Am I getting close here?
I don’t think Suck It Up is useless, I think it’s hurtful. Especially since you can’t talk back to it.
What I am really angry at is all the bluntness. Not being allowed to ask questions. The implication that my pain is fake, and even if it’s real, addressing it is destructive and self indulgent. Why?
Would I come off less of an angry self-pitying bozo if I asked more questions and flung less poo? I always was afraid questioning was what really brought out the bad in people, and made them want to shut you down.
No, you don’t really get it at all. “Work ethic” isn’t about a Doing The Job No Matter How Much It Sucks, or Showing Up On Time, or Following All The Rules (although for some people it can be some of this). Work ethic isn’t an eighty hour work week, keeping the copier from running out of paper, or sucking the boss’ cock on command; someone can have a strong work ethic and yet enjoy plenty of leisure time in between accomplishments; indeed, some people show a strong work ethic in their hobbies and entertainments. On the other hand, someone can show up to work every day, on time, and have an absolutely sucktastical work ethic. Work ethic is creating or adopting a set of goals that are meaningful to you and achieving them. If someone else wants to give you a bonus, raise, or cheap plastic trophy for meeting their goals, so much the better, but the satisfaction of doing a right job is a reward in and of itself, although hopefully not the only one you get from paying work.
You’re not going to get it by sitting at a computer trying to develop some kind of profound philosophical insight into it. Get up, turn off the machine, and go out and do something–anything–that has a resulting end product which may give you some kind of satisfaction or reward.
Well, hopefully, what you do is relevant and meaningful to you. But look, a lot of times in your life, you’re not going to be doing relevant and meaningful stuff. A lot of life is drudgery. I know this might sound depressing to you, but I don’t think it has to be. I think a lot of the problem a lot of people have is that they start something, and then it gets hard or boring or unpleasant, and they just give up. But if you’re able to push through that, you’ll be able to accomplish something.
As an example, I spent the last 10 years in a job where one of my major duties was filling out required government applications for my for my firm’s clients. Those forms were, honestly, pretty boring. I could do them in my sleep, for the most part. But, in the end, they got done, and my firm’s clients met their regulatory obligations, and I can say to myself “It’s because of me, partly, in a minor way, that these companies are still in business and doing well.” It’s about taking pride, I think, in what you’ve done, even if what you’re doing is boring, because you are accomplishing something. That was what kept me going to my job every day.
Yes, suck it up (and deal with it) are blunt. But I think that most posters in this thread and the other one have also offered advice on top of those 2 simple phrases, so it’s not really as blunt as it seems.
That’s just what it boils down do. Accept that things are difficult, and that if you want to be successful (however you define that) you have to work at it.
I told you, I’ve been in exactly the same situation you are. I never thought I’d tell somebody else to suck it up. But that’s what you have to do.
The best advice I can give is to set a goal that will make you feel better about yourself and your situation. I gave you several examples of seemingly stupid things that make me feel better about myself. For example, getting a job in a restaurant has helped me tame my anxiety problems, learn to work under pressure, and gives me the satisfaction every day of knowing that I made someone else’s leisure time more enjoyable. I can’t tell you how happy I am to know that there are people who come to my restaurant and ask specifically for me, because they like my service. That makes me feel good about myself.
It also makes me feel good to know that, however slowly, I am changing my life. At this point I’m coming to terms with the fact that it might take a total of 15 years to get my PhD. But when I do get it, I’ll know that I did my best to earn it.
I think therein lies your problem. You aren’t earning your own money, you aren’t contributing your time to charity, you aren’t applying yourself to artistic endeavors. All of that involves work ethic. Without it, you feel useless.
The only way you can stop feeling that way is to change.
The modern economy is monstrously complex. Fortunately, we have this cute little thing called money which permits us to signal to people far removed from us that we don’t even know what things in this world provide us great utility.
If you’re earning money by doing something, and it isn’t through hook or crook, you can rest easily at night knowing that someone else’s day got a little brighter or easier because of what you did to earn that money. In other words, someone thinks your behavior was a good idea to the extent they’re willing to pay you for it.
In modern times, I think that people can often feel considerable dissatisfaction with their job because it’s specialized, far removed from physical things or output that really, “makes a difference,” but on the whole our lives are enormously easier than the lives of our predecessors. As others in the thread have provided objective support for, we have much more leisure time. If we put effort into it, for the most part I think that we can have more significant social and family lives as well.
Participating in the economy in a “conventional” fashion and finding meaning in life really aren’t mutually exclusive.
Really, all these posts and that is what you get from it? I saw posts from people who work in order to have money to persue hobbies they enjoy, I read posts about people who love their work but maybe can’t buy as many material things because it doesn’t pay well, I saw a few super lucky people who love their work and make good money doing it. There were some who say they don’t like work but understand that it is important to some other end (getting the hell out of parents house, for example). There are people in similar situations to yours who are trying to change things, and it sound like they feel good about just making the effort. I don’t think I see anyone saying that you need to hate life, or work, or yourself (which, by the way, sounds like you are doing pretty well on even without the evil work ethic), and I think a lot of people are trying to give useful advice. But in the end it is up to you to work out a situation that makes you content with your life. But you hate work, so I guess your stuck and won’t be able to get away from your pity party for a while.
Wait, now I’m confused. Are you engaged? Or are you speaking of a hypothetical bride? Because in the other thread you said this:
Something I have noticed in these two threads and a few others, is that you tend to speak as if you know these Great Truths about society. But you don’t have regular contact with close friends, you don’t have a relationship, you don’t have colleagues - so where is all this observation coming from? Is it not possible that your (IMO un-nuanced) observations are flawed by your own mental illness, the desire to believe that you aren’t missing out on anything and the lack of interaction with the people you’re observing?
People are skeptical of your claims because it doesn’t align with their experiences and the experiences of many people they know. If you’re in a happy relationship are you going to trust some 40 year old virgin who says that sex is overrated and relationships are all based on lies?
In general I do disagree with the idea that people need to work to have self-worth. I am fortunate enough to not have to work - I do all the housework and grocery shopping so my husband doesn’t have to worry about a thing when he gets home, I cook delicious meals, I volunteer in the community (at the local newspaper and also at a homework club for disadvantaged kids), I’m writing a book that will probably never be finished but makes me happy, I go to the gym, I check up on my parents, I send care packages to my husband’s grandparents, I buy beautiful things, and I am very content. Hell I’d rate myself in the top 0.001% of happiest people in the world.
If your parents are happy to keep supporting you, then don’t get a job if you don’t want to. Find something that makes you happy, that gives your life meaning, and do it. If you can’t find anything to do, that’s not society’s fault. If you are miserable it’s not because people you don’t even know look down on you.
The vitriol that has been directed at Beware of Doug is unreal. There have always been people who just can’t deal with life. This is not a new thing. Why is this concept so difficult for people to grasp? Is our only alternative to off ourselves? I think BoD is struggling with questions that directly confront the so-called American way of life and people are freaking out. He’s admitted that he’s a “layabout, etc.”, his questions, I think go deeper than those that can be answered with “grow up”. What does humanity do with people who just cannot deal but are intelligent and perhaps misdirected, misguided? How do we deal with those who are mentally ill in a way that they find any job they’ve had so very demeaning and unfulfilling? Can ‘jobs’ or ‘careers’ be found for these people? Shouldn’t we expect a certain percentage of society to be this type of person?
I don’t know…my head’s gonna explode…I guess I can just relate. I’m in a bad place as well so I’d appreciate if y’all didn’t hammer on me too much! And give BoD a break as well. Think outside the box, I guess!
Alienation in a nutshell, then. This entire thread seems to have been treading water just to the side of Marx’s theories of alienation, but I haven’t seen him mentioned yet, not even by the OP.
Maybe a little part of the problem is that consarned idea of egalitarianism. If we were back in Roman times, we’d be telling Doug that, being a member of the privileged class, of course it’s ridiculous to expect him to get his hands dirty and work for his food and amusements! That’s what the slaves are for, darling! And then we’d all traipse off to the orgy and the vomitorium afterward. Ahh, those were the days.
But living in the 21st century, we’re all kind of looked to, to pull our own weight. Drat the luck.
