The topic of the confederate battle flag/confederate naval jack and whether or not such banner is offensive and a symbol of racisim/slavery has come up in at least two threads (the ‘Kentucky prom dress’ thread and a do-you-find-this-offensive polling thread). In each thread, several posters have referred to the confederate battle flag, which is square, and the confederate naval jack, which is rectangular, as the ‘Stars and Bars.’ They are not, as can been seen here:
In each thread someone has pointed out the error. In each thread, the misnomer is propogatred further.
We’re fighting ignorance here, so get it straight folks, that big honking blue x sporting thirteen white stars and laid over a red background is NOT the Stars and Bars. I know the name Stars and Bars sounds cool, and it’s a nice parallel to the Stars and Stripes, but for the love of Pete, it just ain’t the same.
I also read a post that presumed that the battle flag flew in wartime and the national flag (which was referred to as a peacetime flag) flew in that fifteen minute period when the CSA wasn’t at war - allow me to clarify, the batle flag flew in battle, on the field, the national flag flew over the capitol.
This is one little tidbit that can and will be filed under “Who gives a shit” by nearly everybody.
I mean, really, all three flags (CSA Flag, CSA Battle Flag, US Flag) can rightfully be nicknamed “Stars and Bars” and in fact I’ve heard the term used to describe all three.
Is it the official name of the flag that flew over the CSA capitol?
wuh? I’ve heard (and just read) plenty of people say (or write) stupid things, doesn’t make 'em correct. Something tells me the “who gives a shit” file needs to have a subset for “stupid things I write because I don’t bother to know what the fuck I’m talking about.” You’re line of reasoning obviates this entire message board. I mean, hell, Nevada could just as easily be the “Show Me State,” Shirley Temple could be “Old Blue Eyes,” and on and on . . . [cue Old School The chick with the little girl: I’ve been in Colorado, Mitch: ah, the sunshine state!, or something like that) It’s a freaking nickname dipshit, and it’s pretty exclusively applied by those who know what they’re talking about to one particular banner.
BTW, who refered to the US Flag as the Stars and Bars? Out of curiousity.
The great thing about the English language is, nobody owns it. As a result, definitions and usage patterns change over time. Sometimes they do so in ways that annoy me, but I’m willing to take the bad with the good.
What this means is that enough people believe the CBF is nicknamed the “Stars and Bars”, then its nick is “Stars and Bars.”
If you want to be a purist about a language, try French; they’ve got an official committee that stands guard over the language to keep bastardization from creeping in. English hasn’t been pure anything since the Norman invasion, and before then, nobody gave a flip.
Give me a break. Then it’s a lingusitic free-for-all, huh? Horseshit. Communication is worthless unless the assemblage of symbols we call words have a recognized meaning. By your relativistic approach to English there is no proper usage, definition, or grammar. I understand that there is no academy for American English and that the language has a populist element in that regard, but none of this relates to my point, which has nothing to do with a definition, rather with the improper reference of a nickname. Moreover, it’s a nickname with a distinct historical context. If a lot of people referred to Gettysburg improperly as Shiloh, they’d be wrong, not altering the landscape of the lexicon, capiche?
So if everyone makes a mistake it ceases to be a mistake? Who knew that questions of objective historical fact are now subject to change because a lot of people don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about and can’t be bothered to find out :rolleyes:
For fuck’s sake… I thought we were supposed to be fighting ignorance here, not embracing it.
The truth about language is somewhere in between. It’s always changing so it really isn’t set in stone but it also isn’t a free for all.
This thread is basically semantical nit picking that has no real point.
The nickname for the Rebel Flag is the Stars and Bars (at least that is one of the nick names) because it has such common usage.
This argument is like someone saying Mickey Mantle’s nickname is “The Commerce Comet” because that is the original more “official” nickname eventhough “The Mick” ultimately became a lot more popular.
I’d suggest that this argument is more like someone suggesting 150 years from now that Mickey Mantle’s nickname is “The Babe”. I feel there’s a difference between people coining a new nickname/name for something and a bunch of people misremembering a name.
I can understand your view that this thread is nit picking, but, honestly, I’m not so sure that “the Stars and Bars = the Confederate flag” is common usage. At least it hasn’t been so in my personal experience.
I’m not suggesting that the meaning of terms can’t sometimes change, though. For example, it’s fair to say that what is meant by “the Confederate flag” has certainly changed since the Civil War. But I don’t think case falls in the same category.
I’ve never once heard the United States flag called the “Stars and Bars”.