Sorry if I seem like I am barging in on an argument that is basically nothing to do with me but I am getting really tired of seeing nothing but threads about US politics hanging around. When are you people going to realise, ALL politicians are assholes!
Seriousley though the level of vitriol generated on both sides of the political divide seems really spiteful and is something I’m not really used to seeing in British politics - I’m sure it does happen but there always seems to be an equal amount of scorn for both parties. I’m going to vote for Labour although I see them as a kind of ‘diet conservatives’ - the fat and sugar has been removed but has been replaced with carcinogenic fats and sugar substitutes that are just as bad but in a different way.
I’m basically left wondering if Britain is just a nation of moaners who will find fault with everyone and whether this is a good thing when it comes to politics? For the most part I believe it is as I worry about people who are over-enthusiastic about almost anything as it tends to be extremely hard to point out ANY flaws with their beliefs - not that I have a habit of pointing out the faults in peoples beliefs but when it comes to politics I believe this is a healthy stance as without a healthy suspicion of politicians motives the bastards are likely to turn feral.
Any thoughts or am I just stating the bleedin’ obvious?
I couldn’t really agree with that more, although I’m sure there are some honest politicians I think that the majority aren’t. They all seem like weasely, power hungry, hypocritical, Machiavellian douche bags to me but, in spite of that, they are a vital cog in the wheel of civilisation - it’s just that it’s our job to question EVERYTHING they do even if we voted for them…Especially if we voted for them.
Just thought I’d share this with you as it goes someway to backing up my beliefs:
I was in a cab last week and got talking to the driver who had led a very interesting life; he had been a football hooligan in the late 70’s before joining the army to ‘get some discipline’ and came out a changed guy. He went on to become a local counsellor but quit after becoming embroiled in a row over workers rights the gist of which was either shut up about it or risk being black balled by the other counsellors. He was the only one who chose what was ‘right’ over self preservation which made him question the motives of the people involved and his own motives in being part of a system he couldn’t hope to change. He now drives a cab and runs football clubs for troubled kids in his spare time. Basically this guy was the pinnacle of what we could have hoped for in local council: a decent caring guy with a strong link to the people he was speaking on behalf of, a real local lad done good kind of thing and he was squeezed out by spineless fuckwits more intent on preserving their free parking and expense accounts.
That’s why most politicians are assholes - because only an asshole could cope with the amount of hypocrisy flying about on a daily basis, a decent person would be crushed by the weight of the lies.
Nothing that I’ve read or seen has given me the slightest indication that Barack Obama is an asshole. I disagree with him about some things, and when (if*) he loses the election I will curse him forever for running too soon when he could easily have been the first black president had he waited, but he’s not an asshole. I think he’s an intelligent, decent guy, and by all indications a non-corrupt politician who honestly cares about America.
*hedging my bet, but I truly don’t think he has a chance in hell.
Surely everyone knows this though? I just think that with this fact in mind we might get less political threads going over the same bullshit over and over again. I have been a member of the dope (only occasionally posting) for some time and the quality of the threads is terrible these days! Seriousley, nothing but Democrat V’s Republican ‘debates’ as far as I can tell. Face up to it, they’ll both do a crap job in some way or the other, it’s like watching starving men argue over whether Cornflakes are better than Coco Pops.
Actually I agree with you, he does seem like the nicest candidate for President I can ever remember seeing plus it would be so cool if America voted in a black president purely because I think the rest of the world thinks this would never happen*. I think it would be like when we voted in Margaret Thatcher after she said ‘there will never be a female Prime Minister’ except, you know, good.
*Ok, ok I haven’t polled the rest of the world and this is basically what I think based on, well nothing other than a gut feeling but it would be pretty amazing.
It’s millions of people like you, in America, with this attitude that there’s no difference between the two candidates, who will cause Obama to lose.
If he did win, at the very very least, he would appoint lots of people in important jobs who know what the hell they’re doing and who don’t have a right-wing bias. That alone makes him worthwhile.
ETA: If you think that way, then what in the world was your OP about??
Eh? I thought it was clear in my OP that I will be voting for Labour even though I still think they have a lot of faults - the lesser of two evils if you will. I wasn’t suggesting voter apathy but the ability to criticise your party of choice. Just because you are voting for them doesn’t make them infallible does it?
It seems like its people like you that made me want to start this OP.
The best sales job of the modern world has been the one performed by the power elite and their representatives. It’s the one that says “All politicians are greedy, so vote for us or the other guys will tax you even higher. All politicians are corrupt, but unlike that other party, we’ll praise the same God you do! All politicians are incompetent, but -look over there, it’s a war we need to fight - God bless our country and support our trooops!”
There’s been a lot invested in the idea that “government can’t help” by the people who want it to only help the already powerful.
Cynicism feels like strength and wisdom because it gives a default position on everything and appears wordly. And it sure is easier than learning or caring about how things work.
What if you have learnt and cared about your beliefs enough to become a counsellor only to have your beliefs dashed by a bunch of assholes like my cabbie friend?
I don’t mean to sound rude but pretty much the only thing I am cynical about is politics and I think my cynicism has been right on the money considering the past decade. I fucking voted for Blair only to watch him become some crazed ‘Christian’ war mongerer’s personal gimp.
Eh, I think we criticize our preferred candidates pretty well, and definitely do after the elections. I tend to vote Democratic on the big candidates and (among other examples) was furious with Pres. Clinton for “don’t ask, don’t tell” making gay people have to continue to hide in the military, and have thrown up my hands in disgust at the incompetence and corruption of our state’s Democratic Gov. Blagojevich.
It’s just getting more partisan than usual because we’re running up to the big election. And don’t think that we Americans aren’t sick to death of it (and all of these threads!) - if I could hibernate until Election Day I’d be a happy woman, maybe I’d even enjoy following politics again.
You are most likely right it just seems impossible to believe at this particular time on the Dope!
I don’t think that you guy’s are incapable of criticising your own but it seems that (at this particular time) the arguments over who is better etc. are very black and white.
If you feel so royaly cheated by Blair and his minions, why are you going to vote for them again WILLASS ?
They will see your vote as cast iron support for them, their previous 10 years, their decisons and their ability to run the country for another parliment.
I couldnt bring myself to do that - regardless of how bad i think Cameron will screw up.
The way i see it, is that you have to flush the shite out every once in a while.
Incompetance should never be rewarded with a vote. Its all you’ve got. And the NuLabour gov needs a frigging good shoeing.
I don’t know really - what are the other options? It’s like trying to choose which kernel of sweetcorn to eat from a floater you found in a public toilet. Is there anyway I can cast a ‘non-vote’? I want my voice to be heard but I want it to say ‘I have lost faith in all of you’.
Seriousley I don’t know why I would vote for him come to think of it but the only alternatives are a ‘joke’ vote for someone like the green party - you know, someone who will never get in.
That’s a point. Politicians while actually in Congressional session aren’t allowed to get away with 1/4 of the rhetorical bile that Parliament gets away with during Question Time.
By which I mean, there are actually rules in both houses of Congress that you can’t disparage or defame another member of Congress (or, apparently, the sitting president of the US…Democratic Rep. Pete Stark of California merely suggested that Bush enjoyed the deaths of US soldiers in Iraq as a rhetorical device, and was forced by his own party to apologize in camera).