They also have a “near-unique history of repeated oppression”, down to sharing the same extermination camps in the Holocaust.
And their current treatment in Europe is worse than even the current increased level of antisemitism there.
I think quite a lot of (other) Zionists would disagree - see ITD’s post above, for instance:
Certainly. There’s a lot of diversity of thought among Zionists.
That is true. It is also true that the Israeli government and armed forces are presently co-opted and under the control of the Right Wing descendants of that colonist you dismiss as fringe.
Which is why I spend much of my time on Hebrew social media railing against Netanyahu, Smortrich, the Haredim and the rest of those assholes, their corruption, their attempts to undermine democracy and their mismanagement of the war. I do so because I am a patriot who loves his country, which is the exact same reason I refuse to let people challenge its right to exist. The fact that I want my country to be better doesn’t mean I have any less of a duty to protect it. My loyalty is not conditional.
Excuse me… Who’s “paying the price”? Not you. Your victims are paying the price. Alessan, you’ve always been moderate and considerate, but this “paying the price” remark is incredibly clueless and ugly. The people of Gaza are paying the price.
I meant a moral price.
In other words…
How certain are you that the current path the Israeli government is taking is the best path towards long-term peace and security?
Given this:
Especially the mismanagement part, I’d say @Alessan is not certain at all.
I’m not sure the current government even has a path.
Personally, I think that as this point, the best we can do is strike a deal, get the hostages back, withdraw, rebuild and prepare for the next round of fighting a few years down the line. Netanyahu has squandered Israel’s chance of driving Hamas out of power in Gaza; hopefully, we’ll be better prepared next time they attack.
Maybe, once the fighting ends, the Gazans will look around, see how much a disaster Hamas has been for them, and do something about them. But I’ve learned not to rely on miracles.
Thank you. This is remarkably different from other “defenders” of the current path I’ve been discussing this (most notably @babale).
Subtleties are an… alien concept in these discussions, generally speaking.
Very well said, ITD.
What does “ITD” mean? (really asking…Google didn’t help.)
It’s the poster he responded to.
I’m curious what you think Alessan said that I disagree with, or that my prior posts are against.
I’ve agreed that the current government does not really have a path, no?
Ah! Thanks!
Absolutely correct. They are the only other group that the Nazis targeted for complete extermination.
While we are taking about other groups. In 1950 there were around 2.5 million Jews in Egypt, Yemen, Tunisia, Morocco, Iran, Iraq, Ethiopia and Syria. These were not European immigrants. This population of Jews has been there for over 2500 years. There are maybe ten thousand now. Effectively extinct. Is this a genocide or ethnic cleansing?
Ivory Tower Denizen
My recollection is that you believe Hamas will be crushed and Gaza occupied until it can be a peaceful neighbor. @Alessan doesn’t appear to believe that’s remotely in the cards of the current path.