Why do we take sides in this fight? Why do we support Israel over Palestine?
Maayyybe because Palestinians have never hesitated to kill Israeli children?
Or because Israel has offered, over & over, to live in peace with the Palestinians, only to be brutally rebuffed?
Or because the Palestinians have repeatedly attacked & killed unconnected third party nations, murdering their citizens or holding them hostage, merely to make a statement?
To Hell with the Palestinians.
Yes, definitely torture their children.
You would prefer we support the people who use children as kamikaze bombers?
Well, the choice is between torturing their children or letting them use their children as kamikaze bombers. I say… torture 'em.
why support either?
Are you so very naive as to believe that we have a choice?
Bobby Kennedy got killed, the Munich Olympic Massacre, endless hijackings…the list of Palestinian attacks on us goes on forever.
They dragged us into this, and they will regret doing so.:mad:
Whoosh? I don’t get it.
Exactly. This is why we must torture their children.
Because a country that occasionally violates human rights is preferable to a country that routinely violates human rights.
The Munich Olympic Massacre? I’m not arguing against it being a terrorist act but how was it directed against “us”? It was Israeli athletes (and a German policeman) being killed in Germany.
First of all, saying “to hell with the Palestinians” indicates that you support collective punishment. Do you?
The political Zionist movement, unlike the native Jews of Palestine, was unapologetic about its dedication to ethnic cleansing. Israel’s founders stated this openly, before, during, and after the fact. They never hesitated to kill Palestinians of any age, if said people did not escape to squalid refugee camps first, and sometimes they were not safe even there.
The Zionists have never made any efforts to live in good faith with the Palestinians. This has reached something of a crisis point, as Israeli expansionism has made a two-state solution impossible.
I don’t condone Palestinian actions that deliberately target civilians, whether Israeli or otherwise. Do you feel the same about Zionist/Israeli actions? Are you aware that Zionist terrorist groups pioneered many of the same hijacking and bombing tactics later adopted by Palestinian groups? The Zionist terrorists (particularly Irgun and the Stern Gang/Lehi) made a habit of murdering Arab civilians, the same British personnel who had just liberated places like Bergen-Belsen, and any Jews who happened to be in the way. They murdered Count Folke Bernadotte, a Swedish diplomat who saved thousands of Jews from the Holocaust. The Stern Gang/Lehi even attempted to forge an anti-British partnership with the Nazis, in exchange for deportation of Jews to Palestine. After all, such Zionists agreed with the Nazis about ethnically pure “volkisch” states.
And then there’s the USS Liberty, and Jonathan Pollard, and plenty more.
To hell with the Zionists. It’s not American business.
Your take on this is…somewhat unique.
Perhaps if there is any truth in the report, the Palestinians might stop using their own women and children as human shields, and their own children as suicide bombers against the Israelis.
Then both sides would be happy.
If you’re murdered by an angel faced little child, you’re still as dead as if it was his big hulking, hairy, father,uncle or brother who offed you…
(Or for that matter his grown up sister, aunt etc.)
For the Palestinians its a “win , win” situation .
If you do nothing then, you or someone else, gets killed now, or in the near future.
But if you do SOMETHING, then we get bucketloads of crocodile tears, about innocent little children, from the very people who use the kids to kill, in the first place.
And that’s why non Jews in the West tend to back the Israelis and not the people who send their own children to their deaths.
I think that is an over simplification, and an outsiders view of the conflict. I don’t think any of us has the place to judge or assume we know what atrocities each side have committed. I just hate how Israel gets the default support of the US no matter what, it seems.
I do not believe much of what the UN says.
I don’t believe we have all the facts here.
How many in this thread have been to either place and actually lived & worked in either place? I believe my life long friends who have been there many times, and are still going there much more than what the UN is saying.
If you examine the details in the article, they appear less shocking than the headlines and descriptions would indicate.
Take “human shields”. The Article says:
The details: the report mentions 14 incidents over 2+ years. This is described as “continuous use”. However, if you look at the wording, it says that the 14 combine “human shields” and “informants”. What exactly is an “informant”? Article does not say.
From a superficial reading of the article, one would get the impression it is Israeli policy to regularly use kids as shields. Yet, in the details, Israel denies this and says that if soldiers are caught doing it, they are punished. According to the UN agency, that may be true in some cases, but the punishments are “too lenient”. No details are given as to what the punishments were, for what acts, and what they ought to be.
In short, the article is wholly deficient. How many of those 14 incidents relate to “human shield” use versus “informant” use, whatever that means? Of those incidents, how many soldiers doing it were punished? What did their punishment consist of? No idea. Just the bald allegation that, whatever punishments were handed out, they were insufficient.
From this, we are supposed to condemn the entire country, deciding whether to support one side or another? Okay. I guess that puppy-throwing US soldier shows that the US is evil.
As to being an outsiders point of view, I am a non Jew and a non Israeli who has spent time in the Palestinian territories, as well as in Palestinian areas in Israel.
So my impressions are not based on what I’ve read, or what was on tv, or on what everybody knows, or what someone told me in the pub, etc etc.
And before you start thinking that I was all matey with the Israelis, I was actually, pulled by them, questioned and expelled from the country.
So I don’t think that they looked on me as one of their buddies.
Trying to put the case as 6 on one hand, and half a dozen on the other simply doesn’t cut it.
In 2012 the Palestinians made 6,804 separate attacks with rockets and mortars into Israeli civilian areas, virtually at random.
Please note that that was the number of attacks, not the number of rockets and mortars, which is obviously more then that.
The article is a little hard to follow. It appears to be claiming that at least some of the torture inflicted on Palestinian children in the Gaza strip is that Israelis are denying children that they capture birth registration, and health care. I thought Hamas ran the Gaza strip. Shouldn’t they be worrying about Palestinian health?
And “go and stand by my jeep so your friends don’t throw stones at us” is a bad thing, no doubt, but it wasn’t what I was thinking about when I heard the term “human shields”. More stuff like this -
Regards,
Shodan
It’s not like we lack information on what’s happening in the Middle East so I think we can make a reasonable assumption that we have a general knowledge of what atrocities have been committed.
It’s hard to see how anyone can look at the facts (all of them and not just a selected set of facts) and not be in Israel’s favor. It’s not a default, it’s a reasoned judgement. Yes, the government of Israel and individual Israelis have committed crimes. But the Palestinians have committed far more crimes and far greater crimes.