I REALLY need some job advice

In My Humble Opinion
1

Here’s the background: I’m working on a large project with my boss’s boss. My boss is known for being really nice and very reasonable. She’s very demanding, but trusts her employees to handle responsibility. Her boss is very demanding, expects the impossible and doesn’t trust his employees to be able to handle responsibility.

Said project has taken me about a month to complete. I finished yesterday. Throughout the duration of the project, I made a few mistakes - nothing major, but my boss’s boss still got upset because he expects perfection. Unfortunately, I made a mistake on the finished project. It was a pretty obvious mistake, so he’s understandably upset. I am worried because this is unfortunately very common - him being upset with me, that is. The only problem is that he’s not always right when he’s upset. In fact, many times when he’s upset, he has made a mistake, but does not want to take the blam. This is so common that my boss came in and told me “Look, I know he’s being completely unreasonable. And whatever he says is right. It doesn’t matter if it’s true - he just won’t admit if he’s wrong, so you have to take the blame.” He’s been wrong several times in past projects and has placed the blame squarely upon my shoulders. So in his perception, I am completely incompetent.

My boss doesn’t see it that way - she’s told me as much. She says she feels I am very good at what I do and that she wants me to succeed. I’ve asked her if she thought I should seek a new job, and she said that she didn’t, but if that was my choice, she would be more than happy to give me an excellent recommendation.

Anyway my boss’s boss has left her several nasty messages about me in the past because he has done stuff wrong, realized it’s wrong and conveniently “forgotten” he requested it done that way in the first place. (Thank goodness I save all my emails!) So if you add what he perceives as previous errors on my part and add the current situation to that, you get one of the following scenarios:

a) I can get fired.

b) I can get a warning.

c) I can finish this project, but do really well on another and prove myself once again.

Now, our administrative assistant is leaving our firm, so we’ll be very very short-handed until we replace her, meaning all of us that are not administrative assistants will have to pitch in and help. So if he does choose to fire me, I don’t think he’ll do it immediately, but now I’m not so sure. He’s been unhappy with the progress of this project because the other members of the team working on it have been uncooperative, and he’s taken that frustration out on me. If he feels that all of this is my responsibility, I think it’s a good possibility I could lose my job.

Is there any one out there that can give me their opinion??

2

Frankly, if you survive the current situation the long term perspective of the big boss still seems, from what you’ve said, unlikely to change. I’d start looking.

Good luck.

3

It sounds like he just has a gruff/ difficult style and you will be fine. It sounds like pretty much no one’s work is up to his standard, and he expresses it bluntly, even accusingly.

If you want to keep your eyes out for another job, I can understand. It’s no fun to work for a jerk, even a jerk once removed. But it sounds like you’re free to look on your own timetable. It sounds like he’s looking for someone who will work hard and let him take credit and dodge blame. If you’ll keep doing that, he’ll probably keep paying you.

4

The first thing that strikes me is that 1) either your boss doesn’t support/defend you enough to her boss, or 2) she does support defend you, but her boss doesn’t acknowledge the input. That is, it seems her level in the management chain is not really doing much - either she should be taking the heat for what her boss considers to be your errors and SHE should then come down on you. Or if she doesn’t feel her boss’ accusations are justified, she should be defending you. That is, it doesn’t seem appropriate that you would be getting this much heat from your boss’ boss. So first off, as much as you like working with her, you might think about why this situation is as it is.

That said, it does sound like your boss’ boss 1) has something (irrationally) against you and 2) no matter what you do, you may never be able to get out from under that. How this occurred is probably irrelevant. And this again gets back to your boss standing up for you and making her opinion known about just how valuable you are to the organization.
But given the situation and that it sounds like your boss’ opinion doesn’t count for much with her boss’ opinion of you, you have essentially two choices: continue to work under the added pressure of needing to prove yourself, or walk. I doubt if they would fire you as they would need to make a case to do so, and it sounds like you do perform adequately enough.

If your boss’ boss is reasonable (perhaps a big stretch), over time he will have to see that despite being human and therefore capable of making mistakes, you are a valuable contributor. But this may take time, and you will need to work under his additional scrutiny waiting for you to mess up.
So it is your call as to how you want to continue.

Hope this helps.

5

Frankly, your boss is not protecting you. She should.

This is just too hard on your digestion.

Try to get a new job while they are short handed; write both a formal letter of resignation, and a personal letter to your boss explaining that her boss’s unprofessional behavior has driven you out of the company.

Document the hell out of your complaint.

But, yeah, get out of there; it’s just going to get harder to find a job with your sense of self being beaten down

6

I’m not sure I see the upside to that, but I can imagine a potential downside.

7

PERSONAL letter; she can use it as ammunition, or defense if she ever stands up to the jerk.

8

Thanks for all your input. I had sort of come to the conclusion that I need to find a new job, too. It’s just not worth it to be this upset all the time about something that I can’t control. I mean, I am more than willing to take the heat for something when I’ve made an error. In fact, I know I’m going to go in tomorrow and take a lot of shit. And I’d be okay with that if I hadn’t already taken a lot of shit for stuff I didn’t do. The stupid thing is that I only get the shit second hand. My boss’s boss doesn’t actually call me - he calls my boss and tells her to get my act together. She then tries to defend me, then later tells me about her boss’s complaints.

During a conversation we had last Thursday, she said that she was worried I’d lost my confidence because she knew that her boss was coming down hard on me for stuff he did. I told her that, yes, I’d lost my confidence and I find it difficult to work with someone as childish as this guy. I also said that it upsets me that he won’t take responsibility for his work and his actions. She said she understood, but that’s just the way he is. I can’t accept that. I don’t want to work somewhere where people are allowed to perform sub-par and blame it on others just because they’re superiors and “that’s just the way they are.”

Unfortunately, I’ve found that at most companies, somehow there’s always some asshole idiot or many asshole idiots that makes his/their way into upper management. Do you guys have the same experience?

9

Overlyverbose, I haven’t run across you much before, so a belated welcome. You seem well-spoken, probably far so better than I can muster.

What I meant to express earlier was that your description of big boss seems to indicate that his m.o. will always include a scapegoat, and you’re it for now.

Been there, done that. You won’t change it, and it will likely remain a burr under the saddle, or, perhaps, sword over your head for all the time that big boss remains. So, it’s an untenable situation. There are better, and you can likely find such. It’s far better to be seeking employment while employed than otherwise. And don’t put your gripes down on paper that you’ll leave in someone else’s custody.

10

Yeah, I think the big boss does need a scapegoat. At first I was worried that it was just me. At my last job I was actually told that I was too intelligent (I was working on my masters then), and that they didn’t feel I’d be happy there for long. I wasn’t, of course. And my boss was a total snake, which was one of the reasons I lost my job - he didn’t think it’d be a good idea to have someone in that position (yes - it was an admin. assistant position) that had that much education. I only had the job because I needed money to put myself through school, and he was very pleased with my work performance until he found out I was getting a graduate degree. I made the mistake of admitting why I was there to a co-worker, who went to my boss and said “Oooh, you know Andie is getting a masters, don’t you??” I was about a year away from the degree at the time - I wasn’t planning on going anywhere, and I made that very clear when he confronted me about it.

Anyway, I think this current job will get better. For a while, anyway. Then I’ll have to work with this asshole again. And it’ll get worse, and I’ll feel just as horrible and trapped as I do now. I don’t need that. And when I do leave (I started sending out resumes this evening), I will probably be candid with my immediate boss and tell her exactly what’s driving me away. But I think she knows already that if anyone would make me leave, it’d be this dickweed.

And thank you, Ringo, for calling me “well-spoken.” As someone primarily involved in writing, graphics and web stuff, I never, ever get that!!

11

Sounds like the boss’s boss might be one of those all-too-common beasts whose MO is to yell and scream and bluster and drive everyone into a frenzy. Then, when the dust settles, the beast takes credit for everything that went well, and spreads blame for things that went wrong.

Or maybe your following written instructions and not listening to what the boss’s boss says, or vice versa.

It’s not a good situation and you should look for a new one.

12

OVB:

I can only tell you of my experience.

I just moved to a new city. I took a job prior to coming here, and in less than a month, I quit.

Similar situation. Boss’s boss was a child with limited sense of common decency and overlarge sense of entitlement.

There were plusses to staying, like a humongous salary. On the whole, the other folks at the job were fine. Good schedule, go home early… those kinds of things. Job itself was not too hard.

But in the end, I just could not expose myself to that man every day. Never knowing when he was going to be displeased over some stupid petty thing that any adult should be able to handle on his own. I think the image of the “sword hanging over your head” was very apt in this situation.

Perhaps in time it would’ve gotten better, and I could’ve let it run off my back better. And maybe I was too sensitive and needed to have a tougher skin.

But I just knew for myself that having to deal with that kind of a person would cause my stress hormones to be serging thru my body every day, to only my detriment, not his. And I do not ever want to be back in the situation where I just can’t get out of bed in the morning.

Lastly, there are other jobs out there. Ones where I don’t have to ignore my ethics or personal standards of conduct to abide.

Yeah, losing all that money sucks. But when I imagine going back there, I just wanna cry. And I don’t miss that at all.

I think I hear you struggling with issues of loyalty and self-image (ie - am I the kind of person who quits? What does this say about me?), as I did. All I can say is that there are a lot of people out there and jobs out there where you won’t have to suffer this kind of crap. And winning over this guy is hollow if it costs you emotionally. You are the one who goes home at night and wakes in the morning with its effects, not your boss who likes you. I’m sure she has her own reasons for staying. But you have to decide what’s best for you, in the end. Listen to your tummy. It will never guide you down the wrong path.

13

Confront the guy! If you are working on the 3 premises you have stated you really have nothing to lose.

a) I can get fired. —At least you got the chance confront him on his allegations.

b) I can get a warning.— Refer to a)—You could go down warning him as well.

c) I can finish this project, but do really well on another and prove myself once again. — This has a low probability of working. Why because the person in question has already formed their opinion of you and is not willing to change.

Or consider this. Let’s say you confront the big boss here and let him have a piece of your mind. Now stick to specifics and cite what issues you are refering to so as not to get into a shouting match. Stand your ground! Don’t give into any rants or raves from this person. Keep speaking on the issues at hand. End with a statement like this; “I know you can fire me or you can take the criticsism and use it to improve yourself and the company its your decision.” This keeps the boss in the driver’s seat and I’m betting that either he will fire you (haven’t lost anything yet) or he will find that he respects you for having the balls to confront him on this and hold him accountable.

Either way the problem is solved. I reccommend doing this alone or with your immediate boss as witness so that the big boss can keep face. The outcome:

a) you get fired. But being fired means you don’t have to put up with this insufferable situation anymore.

b) The guy gets the point and sees you as a person willing to make a stand now and then. There are few people who have the guts to do this and that is why some of them are successful.

Just my 2 cents worth here. BTW I worked the corporate world and was THE boss. I knew that my strength rested in my employees moral and their willingness to support me. If someone had an issue with me they could speak with me in private. Likewise if I had an issue I would do the same with them.

14

Do you perchance have a case for constructive dismissal?

15

I too see your boss as part of the problem, perhaps a big part of the problem. Your boss has no backbone, and as quick as she is telling you “he’s just like that, live with it”, you can bet she’s saying that exact thing to her boss about you. A big part of her job is standing up and fixing things. And that means either getting you to change or getting her boss to change. Instead she’s trying to stroke everybody. Bad girl.

On that note, I recommend you tell both your boss and your bosses boss that you’d like to have a meeting with them to make things better. You want to be a productive employee, and somethings broken somewhere, we all want it fixed. You’re a team player, and you want to make things better. (in case that wasn’t crystal clear, you don’t want to say that you want to have a meeting to discuss why the bosses boss is always making you a scapegoat.)

You may find that either your boss or bosses boss doesn’t want to have a meeting. One or both of them is avoiding their own problems and knows it, and probably isn’t crazy about changing their behaviour. I would be a bit pushy about making the meeting happen, i.e. rather than saying “can we meet?” say “I’d like to meet with you next tuesday at 2. if this doesn’t work, please suggest a better time.”
On another tack… You were non-specific about the conflicts to date, and I can’t help but wonder if you aren’t at least a minor contributor to the problem. Is it possible that the bosses boss is seeing “the problem” as a different problem than you are? Perhaps he wanted some general thing done, and gave a specific example of how it might be done, and then you did the specific thing only to discover it was a flawed idea, but then didn’t solve his general problem. Or perhaps you did what he asked but didn’t do it in a timely manner, or didn’t communicate to others about your progress, and so someone somewhere else ended up botching things. You didn’t get specific, so I really don’t know. Anyway, if you aren’t already, you should probably look inwards and see if there isn’t something real about his complaints that you can make better.

All of the above being said, if you can’t make it better with him (and her), time to move on.

16

Bill H., thanks for the advice. While I don’t feel that I caused this in the first place, I will not claim complete innocence. This is what happened: I had a publication to put together. I began putting it together a month ago to get a head-start. Said publication was originally to be about 50 pages long. So I set up a template for it and began adding the text and graphics. My boss’s boss sent me some text he had had our attorneys write, then he read it himself, had me read it, I made suggestions, he read it again, then approved it and asked me to add it to the publication making absolutely no changes to the text. I assumed it was done. This was my mistake.

After the text was approved, I added it to the template and told my boss’s boss it was complete. He said great! Can I see it. I said sure. I sent it to him (he’s in Kansas City, Mo., I’m in St. Louis) and he called back saying that we had to make changes to the template. Now, I already have a complete document. I finished before my deadline, but it took me nearly three weeks, and I only finished a week in advance. I really have to hurry, and unfortunately, my boss’s boss has no understanding or sympathy for the fact that this document is so incredibly large that it takes about 30 minutes to print one copy, so if I do make changes quickly, it’ll still take me several days to print 200 copies of it. I tried breaking it up into smaller documents, but my boss’s boss will permit me to break it down into no more than two. I don’t know why, but he got really upset when I broke it down to 4 so I could work on it at home. So I come in over a couple weekends, stay late, come in early on workdays, manage to complete everything, go to print and ship it to KC, and he decides that it’s all wrong, completely flawed and angrily calls my boss demanding to know why I hadn’t read the text. I admit - I should have read the text once more before putting it in the pub. However, had I known that “approved” text does not mean approved, I would have been grateful, and I feel this problem could have been largely avoided.

But no matter what pressures I was under I can’t to pretend to be the victim. I was a contributing factor in this problem. I should have read the text and tried to convince him to change it. We’re supposed to write in AP style, which is a pain in the ass when you’re working with attorneys, and my marketing director is an attorney. Either way, I have learned an extremely valuable lesson this time around: Whether or not my marketing director claims something is complete and correct, I should not believe him.

And in case you’re interested, this is where I am now:

We took care of all errors in the publication. My manager and all other members of the St. Louis marketing office helped me out. I’m looking at it one more time this weekend. I’ve spoken to my boss, I’m not getting fired. She was very nice and said, “Well, everyone makes mistakes. Just shake it off, don’t worry about it, but just don’t do it again.” Not really helpful. But nice. :smack: To speed up the printing process, our administrative assistant is going to the office where our marketing director works to complete the job. Apparently he’s avoiding me. He won’t return my calls and deletes my e-mails when I try to contact him. So I’m not getting fired, but I’m not exactly in the best spot. Not only is my manager refusing to get involved, particularly when our marketing director is being extremely childish, but the person I’m having a problem with refuses to communicate with me. I’m looking for another jobs as I ramble on here, and hopefully someone will be able to use a code monkey/content developer and editor/graphic artist in the near future.

17

Well, not always.

But, yeah, usually. I think it is a ‘family role’ some-one in the company has to play; if there isn’t anyone to whom it comes naturally, the person most fit will grow into the role.

You are unfortunate in having been chosen for the role of scape-goat; I’ve never known anyone to escape that role in a given position.

In your next position, lie low, find the Ranter, and find a way to avoid his/her attention. And hope for a boss who insulates you better; that is a very important part of her job.

It’s not just childish behavior, it’s family dynamics.

18

sue the your boss for sexual harassment/discrimination. everyone is doing it, and your job will be virtually untoutchable.
Oh, and quit drinking at work

19

The best advice is to leave. You sound too good to put up with the B/S. Be nice to your boss and get a good recommendation, but leave once you find another job. Getting fired isn’t good, it could bite you someday. Getting a warning is just aggravation to you and confrontation will not change your bosses boss, it will only solidify his/her belief that you are incompetent, and obviously you are not to get that job done on time under harse conditions. Your boss is not supporting you but is probably going through his/her own hell with her/his boss.

Good luck and don’t look back