I really really need some advice, QUICK

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’m going to make this quick. No hypothetical friends, nada, because I need this to be quick, and concise. 'Cause I need to figure this out by 1 PM.

Over the weekend, I ran into my boss’ boss - the really big head honcho - at the grocery store. Since we’re in the same office and live in the same town, we have a really good (up until now) relationship, basically on a real superficial if nothing else level. I’ve done computer stuff for him when his sec’y can’t, and I am her back up when she isn’t here. Let’s say we work together a lot, joke around a bit, but don’t really know each other personally. Frankly, I don’t really care to.

Well, his sons were with him and my son was with me and of course they stopped to say hi. They were in their scouting uniforms on their way to a function. He is a troop leader. My son wants to BE a scout, but I refuse to let him join due to their discriminatory policies. My son (motormouth jr.) said that he had always wanted to be a boy scout. Well, couldn’t hustle him out of there, that would have been really rude.

OH says Mr. Boss - how about if I talk to your mom on Monday about joining our troop?

Well, short of calling in sick, I can’t get around this conversation. He’ll be in at 1 and I KNOW he will drop by. He’s like that.

My problem:

How do I tell my boss, who holds my career in his pudgy hands, that I will not allow my son to join because of their stance on gays? This guy is a BIGSHOT in local scouting. He lives and BREATHES it. He’s a freaking thumper (as in bible) to boot. I’m gonna insult him unless I can find a way to say it - and I’m lost. AND I won’t lie - what kind of message would that send to my son - if I believe in something strong enough to fight for it, I sure as heck ain’t gonna lie about it just to be politically correct. What the hell good does taking a stance DO if you do that? Anyway, that’s a tangent.

SO HOW do I tell my bosses boss that my son won’t be allowed to join scouting until they change this policy without offending him?

Shit - I HATE Mondays.

(And I’m sorry to ramble, but I’m kinda freaking out about this.)

2

I don’t recall from my scouting days that the anti-gay doctrine is taught to the children. Perhaps it is merely an upper-level thing. Do you boycott Wendy’s as well?

I wish I could be of help, but I don’t see how I can be, since I don’t 100% agree with you on this subject. Best of luck to you!

3

First of all, let him bring the subject up (yea, I know he will).

Then, thank him for his interest, “but it really doesn’t fit into our family plans at this moment.” and “I’ll let you know when it does”

If he presses for why it doesn’t fit in, you don’t owe him an explanation. Just “oh, there’s just so many things, I really couldn’t get into it right now” and quickly shift conversation over to work related matters.

how’s that?

4

If you can’t get out of it by being vague, and this is something you feel STRONGLY about, then you cannot lie & be true to yourself & your personal ethics.

Of course, if you really feel that strongly about it, then, ethically, you are being a bit hypocritical by having a “really good” (if superficial) relationship with a bible thumping homophobe, aren’t you? Then again, if he’s a truly good Christian, he will hate the sin & not the sinner, and will certainly be tolerant of your stance. Ask him “What would Jesus do…?”

I’m kinda with you. I think its silly to have a policy excluding gays, though you have to wonder about an organization which puts boys sleeping like sardines in tents. I also don’t think anybody has the right to tell a private organization or individual who they should accept or exclude.

Basically, it comes down to your personal ratio of standing up for your beliefs, and protecting your job. Nobody but you can decide which is more important to you.

5

At this juncture, you do not have to tell Mr. Boss the reasons why you will not let your son join. You can simply tell him that you can not allow him to join at this time, and that the reason is personal.

This does not invalidate the stand that you are taking. You just don’t have to tell Mr. Boss anything at this time. Eventually, the truth will come out. It always does.

(Incidentally, my husband has been approached many times and asked if he would become involved in the scouts. He always says no, for just that reason. When he has stated the reason, the scout person has always responded “badly.”)

6

Mr. C - yep, I boycott Wendy’s too. And I’ve cancelled my support for United Way for the same reasons. Instead of sending my money to United Way, I volunteer at one of the women’s shelters they also support - supporting the women, not the organization. Both financially and with my time.

Wring and Grean Bean, those answers sound like good ones. No, I take that back - that’s absolutely perfect. That’s how I’m going to approach it - and there shouldn’t be any hurt feelings or anything. I would hug you two if you were here. :slight_smile:

Carina - I’m trying to stand up for my beliefs WHILE keeping my job. I really can’t not have a decent relationship with the guy who is going to determine if I’m going to remain a secretary for the next thirty years. I just needed a way to do this TACTFULLY. I don’t think keeping a roof over my head while keeping peace in the office AND standing up for my beliefs is being hypocritical. But it is damn hard to keep all three “plates” spinning at the same time, harmoniously, and without breaking ANY (stupid analogy, but hey - I tried).

Thanks, guys. I appreciate it. I’ve been worrying about this since yesterday and frankly, I’m worn out. Hey - maybe I should go home sick??? :wink:

7

My son was in the Scouts for 5 or 6 years. There was nothing they did that was in any way anti-gay (but this was before the court case). I think not letting your son join may hurt him more than it will hurt them.
And some times the best way to change a policy is from the “inside”.
Good luck, whatever you choose.

8

Missy - didn’t mean to be disparaging at all, I really do understand your dilemma! Honestly, I think that just making up another excuse is the best avenue to take. After all, Mr Boss can’t force you to tell him your “real” reason, unless you let him bully you into it. Good luck.

BTW, as the risk of being terribly unhip, why are we boycotting Wendy’s, again? I don’t go there in the first place, and I do donate money and time, but to small local grassroots organizations and causes.

9

I gotta agree with So Far So Good here. I mean you boycotting them is one thing…
I think your son may well benefit from this type of activity. Learn some stuff, hang out with kids his own age. etc. I don’t think they are gonna try to poison his mind or anything.

Of course, I have been wrong before…

10

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=42767

Carina - no, perhaps my response was just to short. I didn’t find your answer anything but helpful. :slight_smile:

Above is the thread that last discussed what the deal was with Wendy’s. My decision to not go to Wendy’s (and pretty much ALL fast food places - haven’t been in a Burger King, McDonald’s, Taco Bell, Arby’s or ANY fast food other than local like hot dog places in some time unless there’s an emergency and then it’s McDonald’s - it’s a block from my house) is based on the following:

  1. The thread above and Satan’s research - I know this will sound weird, but if Satan researches it and provides links, well, I’m inclined to go with it. I’ve never, in the last year plus I’ve been on the boards, known him to provide a cite that wouldn’t back up what he says. Ok, “if Satan said it it’s probably true” sounds ridiculous, but hey. The fact that there is nothing in that entire restaurant that I like helps, sure.

  2. Their food ALL sucks and is way overpriced. Across the board. Now, that’s not to say my son won’t get a Happy Meal or something - but my SO gets him that stuff. I generally don’t drive! :smiley: But that’s why I go to local places. It’s a hell of a lot cheaper, and they have good food.

And Denny’s is pure evil. They are evil incarnate. In their last ad that went around with the newspaper, they had a picture - purporting to be their opening in 1953. Explain to me why there’s a 57 Chevy and a 58 Fairlane in that drawing. That was Mr. M2U’s call - if he’s wrong, yell at him. :stuck_out_tongue:

11

Don’t forget to give us an update!

12

I would, at all costs, avoid saying the above to your bible thumping boss :wink:
How’d you make out?

13

When my ex-husband and I were raising his grandson, this question came up. I actually went as far as to attend a sign-up meeting for Scouting, and asked the local yokels about their policy on gays, and they didn’t know what I was talking about. We didn’t end up having him join because of other commitments on meeting nights.

One suggestion would be (if you want your child to be in a club like this) to have him join 4H, which isn’t just for children from farms anymore. I have never heard that they had any discriminatory policies toward anyone; has anyone else? You could tell your boss that you are exploring other possibilities, anyway. Is this advice too late to help?

14

You don’t want your son to join because of their stance on gays??? Why don’t you ask your son if he feels that way, after all, he is going to be the scout, not you.

15

Let the boy join. The potential for good far outweighs the potential for bad, especially since it is something he wants to do.

16

I respect you being willing to actually do something to back up your personal convictions, Missy2U, I really do. Too many people only bitch about the state of the world, without making any attempt to change anything.

That being said, I’ve gotta go with LouisB. Let your son join scouts. I have a thirteen year old son that has been in since he was just a wee tot, and the benefits, enjoyment, and opportunities he has gotten out of this organization are just too numerous to list here.

As So Far So Good said, it's not like there is any anti-gay propoganda at the meetings or activities, and if you live and raise him in a way that shows him you respect all kinds of people, that will have a far greater influence on him than anything else.
17

Missy2U, you’re getting a lot of “oh, let him join; who cares what the ‘official’ policies are; scouting is good for boys” type of responses. I want to give you one in support of your decision to express your beliefs by your actions. Your son may be disappointed now, but he will thank you later for teaching him, by example, how to stand up for his beliefs.

Please note that I believe that the BSA, as a private organization, has every right to apply policies reflective of their beliefs. But anyone who joins or supports the organization gives tacit approval of those policies. I completely understand and support your decision to keep your son out of scouting.

Don’t turn your back on the United Way just yet. Here in MA they have begun denying funding. They have to, because they have very clear non-discrimination policies themselves. Also, some schools have begun to review their own policies. In at least some, they will continue to allow the BSA to use their facilities for meetings (because they don’t discriminate on who gets to rent space) but they will no longer allow the BSA to distribute literature at the school.

I expect that new, non-discriminatory organizations will spring up to take the place of the BSA for families such as yours.

18

Just found this topic and I guess we’re all curious how you handled it. My son was in the Scouts and he loved it. The camping, the working toward earning each new patch. I’m like several others on here, I respect your opinions, but maybe your hurting your son by not letting him join if that’s something he really wants to do. A lot of boys have no interests. I will say that there was a gay scout leader here that no one knew about until he did start molesting a couple of the boys who weren’t afraid to speak up. I’m not voicing an opinion on is it right or is it wrong to allow gays, but like the incident that happened here why take a chance with your child. I suppose if you had a gay leader, you would just have to keep a close eye on him around the boys. Maybe there have been incidents that none of us have heard about in the Scouts. They tried to keep the incident here quiet, but this is a small town and nothing is a secret for very long. Needless to say it shamed the family and they moved after he was sent to prison. JMHO.

19

My experience is that each pack/troop differs concerning the emphasis they place on certain social issues. For me and my son as atheists, the “belief in God” thing is the biggest problem. Actually, the biggest problem is that a good number of the boys in his pack are little shits, and their parents don’t do anything to discipline them. But I digress.

Mrs. D attended a recent leader’s meeting, at which some folk mentioned that the pack might lose access to some public buildings, etc. They asked, “Why is this? Didn’t we win that lawsuit?” Mrs. D, also a lawyer, briefly explained the S.Ct’s decision. As she expressed it to me upon coming home, she was very surprised at how quickly the conversation became openly anti-homosexual. Further, no one offered a contrary point of view. Of course, that is just the leaders in my son’s pack, and not necessarily representative of all packs/troops, or all the parents in my son’s pack.

It struck me as unfortunate seeing that these boys are soon to start thinking about sexuality. I have to figure that out of 50 or so boys, at least a couple might be homosexual. Nice to know their parents will be so supportive should they face that difficult prospect.

I would just as soon have my son stop scouting, but he says he wants to continue. Next year he will be in boy scouts. We’ll see if he wants to continue, and if things are different in the different troops available.

Concerning the OP, yeah, the “Sounds good, but we’re just too busy right now!” approach sounds best. How’d it go?

20

I guess I have to start this out by saying that I’m really ashamed of myself. I made a knee-jerk judgement of how my boss would react, and I was wrong. I really didn’t give him any credit. I feel kinda rotten.

When he asked me if I wanted to talk about it, I told him that right now really wouldn’t be a good time for our family (without expanding on it.)

He said no problem - would you like some information on the Indian Guides in the area so that at least your son could still participate in some of the same activities? :eek:

Well color me floored - I really didn’t know what to say but “Ummm” (yep - way to show him my communication skills) and he said that he has looked into it for other people in his neighborhood who had a problem with the Scouts due to the recent issues (he put it something like that - like I said, my communication skills ===> suck) - he understood how the discrimination issues are affecting people’s decision to join and that he respected that. I said “Yes, thank you very much!” Turns out there’s an Indian Guides Nation in my town. Mom ===> Idiot.

So, he’s going to have someone contact me, and he basically said he respected me for standing up for my beliefs without putting me on the spot or being embarassed.

End result, I feel like an absolute LOUSE for not giving him enough credit that he would understand. I suck. And I spent a whole day worrying about this when I didn’t have to.

And lastly, I would like to thank all of you for your help. You’ve all been wonderful! :slight_smile: