What Section of the US Code is that? I know that SCOTUS has ruled that you do have to ID yourself (not show ID, just state your name) to police under certain circumstances. But I know of no such actual law.
How do we know that? What Statute? What sort of knife was he carrying? It appears from your cite that nearly any regular pocket knife is legal. “Under California state law, non-switchblade pocket knives that are concealed in the closed position can be legally carried, concealed or open-carry.”
He had been drinking. It’s not really relevant other than it just ads one more element of potential sketchiness to the scenario.
Not unless there’s a law against being at work.
Just to issue a reality check here, there is a difference between having the police come to your residence and getting stopped for loitering in a park in the middle of the night.
Look, the general rule when dealing with the cops is to be polite and cooperative. Since American police are not, in fact, jackbooted Gastapo you asserting your “rights” is basically just aggrivating some guy who’s only doing his job of trying to figure out who might actually be a danger to society. Even if the officer is innappropriate and is actually violating your rights, you aren’t going to resolve it there anyway (at least not to your satisfaction). Go hire a lawyer and deal with it when it isn’t just you and a couple of armed policemen alone in the park at 1:30 am.
I’m siding with the police on this one. I’m making the assumption the knife violated Pasadena local ordinances because the police officer issued a citation.
As my link said, different cities in California have different laws on concealed knife carry in addition to the state-wide laws.
The U.S. Code is Federal law which wouldn’t cover this particular situation.
I think **Mosier ** is 100% correct.
If you had not broken any laws, and the cops insisted you identify yourself, I would have applauded your decision to not identify yourself (assuming it is legal to do so in California). But you broke two laws, and hence the cops had the upper hand. You would have been much better off to identify yourself with the hope the cops let you go with a warning.
I should add that about 25 States do have “stop and identify” laws, during a detention (a distinct situation different from an arrest or a casual stop) the police in a “stop and identify” state can place you under arrest for refusing to provide your name.
California is not a stop and identify State. What that means is, you can’t be arrested solely on the basis of giving your name.
However, in a situation where the police want your name, and have already found evidence that you have committed another crime it’s definitely within their authority to ask for your name–most likely they are doing it to run your name through the system to make sure you don’t have any outstanding warrants.
Now, they can’t arrest you for simply refusing to give your name in a state without a “stop and identify” statute, but if you’ve already given them evidence of a crime then they already have full justification to arrest you anyway. And in a situation where the police were willing to let you walk away, refusing to give your name makes them suspicious and can very well make them rethink their decision to let you walk away, which is what happened with the OP.
Most likely the police in the OP had no interest on writing a citation for a concealed knife that violated city ordinance, they just wanted his name to make sure they weren’t letting a guy with major warrants out off into the night, by refusing to give his name voluntarily it more or less forced the officers’ hands, they then had to arrest him on the weapons charge to get what they really wanted (his name), because in every state in the U.S. once you’ve been arrested for a crime you have to give your name (they have to have information to put on the citation.)
Yes, I know so why “Originally Posted by Contrapuntal
In the US you are required by law to identify yourself when asked to do so by a police officer.”?? 
Sorry if this has already been posted…
OP:
The cops were already almost 100% sure they knew who you were if you were driving your car…I am pretty sure they had already run your plates… :smack:
I was stopped in KS (I’m from IL) and the KHP came to my car and addressed me as Mr. XXXXXXX…
IMHO, You were wrong…buck up…yes we have rights but we also have something that does not seem to be “common” anymore…Common Sense 
ymmv
In a State with a “Stop and Identify” statute you aren’t allowed to refuse to give your name when you’re detained by the police, that justifies them arresting you.
However, in a state without such a statute, like California, it’s foolish not to give your name in a situation like this because unlike consenting to a search simply giving your name is very unlikely to be incriminating and is likely to get you out of the situation entirely.
If you’re in a situation where the police have no crime to charge you with and there’s no stop and identify statute, you don’t have to give your name, and since there’s no crime to charge you with, there’s little leverage they can use to get it. But it’s actually quite easy for the police to find some charge to arrest you on, so even if you have outstanding warrants that you wish to hide you’re probably not going to get away without giving your name if the police really want it. As the OP learned it’s pretty easy to get arrested for a minor violation the police would otherwise be willing to overlook if you don’t comply.
If that was your question you should have asked it instead of asking him to point to what section of the U.S. Code it is in.
In general he’s not really that far from the mark though, more and more States are implementing stop and identify statutes, and even the ACLU’s general pamphlet on what to do when you’re detained by police suggests you give them your name.
Here is the only Pasadena law I can find on point:
9.84.020 Concealed blade instruments.
No person in this city shall have, possess or keep on his person, in a concealed manner, any knife or other similar instrument with a blade or sharp edge 5 inches or longer, in any public place, private club, meeting hall or concealed in a vehicle. (Ord. 4413 § 1, 1957: Ord. 4393 § 3(c), 1956)
I do not assume that a person who has been cited for a violation is guilty, until proven so in a Court of Law.
It does appear that the Police here had every right to demand the OP’s name, given the situation (closed park). But as ThisSpaceForRent said, they already knew it.
I Personally know that local police can be very stupid when it comes to demanding ID. I was once asked to ID myself, when performing Grand Jury business. I showed my Grand Jury picture and name ID. The police officer demanded my drivers license and then proceded to call in other officers and a Sgt who then threatened and attempted to intimidate me. They even went so far as to call the Presiding Judge *at home late at night. * :eek: Needless to say, they were punished for their stupidity. But still, they had me there for half an hour, refused to let me leave, made up various laws under which they threatened to arrest me- and I was a fucking member of the County Grand Jury on official business! I got a very nice apology from the Chief. The look on the Sgt face when he was speaking to the Judge was priceless, the Judge was apparently ripping him a new one. And this is a GOOD police dept with professional offciers, and this still happens.
Look at the recent series of articles when dudes went to various Police dept and demanded (as is their rights) to see certain records. Some police were helpful, others refused, and yet others *threatened the reporter.[/Ip
I make the assumption that in the absence of other evidence police have a generally good idea about whether or not you’ve actually broken the law they are citing you for, “innocent until proven guilty” is great as a legal principle but I don’t really see why I have to apply it in my private discussions.
Furthermore, in the context in which we were talking, we were discussing about when police have the authority to get your name or detain/arrest you. They don’t have to prove that you’re guilty of a crime to arrest you for that crime, that’s a bit counterintuitive.
Pasadena Municipal Code:
9.84.020 Concealed blade instruments.
No person in this city shall have, possess or keep on his person, in a concealed manner, any knife or other similar instrument with a blade or sharp edge 5 inches or longer, in any public place, private club, meeting hall or concealed in a vehicle. (Ord. 4413 § 1, 1957: Ord. 4393 § 3©, 1956)
Was the blade 5 inches long? If not, they may have been in error. I know there is at least one Pasadena cop who is a couple bricks shy of a load, if you know what I mean.
But they were correct about the other infraction:
3.24.110 Prohibited acts.
- To loiter or remain in the Lower Arroyo, as depicted on Drawing No. 3575 on file in the department of public works, or in the Hahamongna Watershed Park as depicted on Drawing No. 4787 on file in the department of public works, or in Viña Vieja Park as depicted on Drawing No. 5435 on file in the department of public works, at any time from dusk to dawn. To loiter or remain in any other public park at any time between 10:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m. the following morning;
Sorry, I see DrDeth beat me to that first one.
The only part of the OP that bothered me was when the cop was saying, “Why won’t you give us your name? Do you have outstanding warrants? Weed? We don’t care about that.”
I guaran-damn-tee that had he had some weed or something on him, they would’ve changed their tune about that pretty quick.
A small amount of weed is only a ticket in CA.
Whether or not the police will “care” about a misdemeanor varies from cop to cop, I’d never operate under the assumption that a cop is “your friend.” A lot of people who get busted for various things helped themselves along quite a lot by not understanding their rights and incriminating themselves.
I disagree.
I also know the wisdom of picking one’s battles (at least I try to know), but if the cop is clearly trying to overstep his or her authority and does violate your civil liberties, then stand up for your rights.
If we don’t, they will go away forever, and that’s worth fighting for.