I agree with Jodi (that’s a lot easier than typing everything she just said 
). Have you also considered the possibility that your step-daughter might have an innocent crush on you, noblebaron? Sleeping in the same bed is for you and your fiancee (her mother), not for you and her. Don’t let there be any confusion for your step-daughter; she is a beloved daughter, and you and your wife are her parents, with the borders clearly defined.
And please, change the title. I cringed when looking at it.
Oh, bullshit. In the U.S., “slept with” is the default polite euphemism for “had sex with.” It is not “assuming the worst” to give the phrase its generally accepted meaning as opposed to its literal meaning. The OP’er admits he used an “incendiary” thread title on purpose. I agree that it would be better for his purposes to have it changed.
I wonder how many people would be freaking out if the genders of all involved were changed. If a stepmother shared her bed with her slightly insecure motherless stepson, would this even be an issue?
My youngest son is 9, and hops into bed with me all the time. No ick factor. Sometimes, he just wants me to talk to him. He doesn’t have an oedipal complex or anything. He just loves his mom.
Now, as a victim of unwelcome attention from a person in a “older male” capacity, I have to say I worried at first when reading the OP. But it quickly became clear to me that noblebaron did nothing inappropriate. Little girl didn’t have a “Daddy” for the first 2/3 of her life. She’s probably curious as to the things she might have missed. Like cuddling with a daddy. We learn to trust as adults by our experiences, as children, with adults.
I never had a Daddy to cuddle, and Mom couldn’t be bothered 85% of the time. I still don’t like to be touched unless I’m having sex, or getting a massage (in a legitimate spa, by someone I don’t know). I’m not even wild about friendly hugs (though I secretly desperately wish I was). FTR Dad died when I was four. And the previously mentioned “older male” was someone I never chose to be in my life, and didn’t really like during the entire time he was.
Can do.
Wise move.
Is done.
Ooh, Moderator simul-post. Cool, mang.
Dangit, I also wanted to say that I don’t think it would be any better if the genders were reversed. 10 and a half (and nine) are not toddlers.
I think it is sad that your MIL couldn’t see that it was innocent, but that is kind of the way society works. Ten is young enough to still want to sleep in the same bed but old enough to start learning that there are some things that we do or don’t do because of other people, like putting our feet on the dinner table would upset those people that we have to eat with, etc. Now would be a good time to start learning about that kind of thing. Next time maybe have a living room camp out with her on the couch and you in a sleeping bag on the floor or something, that way she gets to be in the same room but it isn’t construed as sexual in any way.
That’s a good idea.
I don’t know how old the grandparents are but kids can get a little creeped out in someone elses house especially like I said if they keep the house dark, or if it has that “old people” house smell. No offense, but I don’t know how to describe it.
My nephew’s that age and I always end up sleeping with him when he sleeps over because we’re upstairs and the guest room is downstairs. He’d sleep with my husband but he goes to sleep before the kids.
Yes, he posted that he used that particular language deliberately at about the same time I was typing that he might have. And there’s no reason to be short with me - that the phrase IS generally accepted to mean “had sex with” was my point. However, that’s not all it means, and it’s a shame that we instantly jump to that conclusion - and perfectly illustrates the OP’s point: that sometimes people get the wrong impression.
I had a college friend (“Mary”) whose dad passed away when she was 9 years old. They had been extremely close; so close that when she got too big to sleep IN the bed with her parents, she had a bed pushed up next to theirs, on her dad’s side, and she (as she told it) fell asleep holding his hand every night.
Because of this and because, similar to the daughter in the OP, Mary went through a phase in her life (after her dad’s death) where she was “missing” the experience of a father, she held some attitudes that might otherwise be considered inappropriate for someone her age. For example, when Mary and I were juniors in college, my dad (whom I adored, and vice versa) came down to visit me and stayed in my apartment. I gave him my bedroom and slept on the sofa-bed during his stay. Mary came over for dinner with us, saw my pillow and blankets on the sofa and asked why I didn’t sleep in the bed with my dad. And not just in a, “Why bother pulling out the sofa bed when your bed’s big enough for two?” kind of way, but in more of a “Don’t you want to sleep next to your dad?” way.
At the time, my dad and I were both like, “Um . . . HUH?” but now I can see where she might have that point of view, since she lost her dad at such a young age. Had Mary’s dad lived longer, she probably would have been way past wanting to sleep with him by the time she got to college. But as it was, she was probably thinking that if she still had her dad (and only had a short visit to spend with him, as I did with mine), she’d want to be with him as much as possible.
Does that make sense?
So if the daughter in the OP has been deprived of a dad for (at this point) most of her life, she might feel needy in ways that other 10 year olds wouldn’t.
This is NobleBaron’s fiancée writing.
I think there has been some misinterpretation as to the type of child my daughter is. For clarity- She is not needy and clingy. She has gone through various phases which included these aspects however it was a short lived phase in which my fiancé and I agreed that we would teach her gently about boundaries and respect ie do not hang off of us to get our attention/one or two kisses is enough, whining doesn’t work, etc… My daughter is in fact a very sensitive and intuitively aware child, she shows a deep level of understanding and surprises me with her mental maturity/she is however a very innocent and childlike girl and I am very, very happy she had the opportunity to feel the sense of safety and loving protection of her father beside her. How many girls never get to feel that and then make up for that lack of male attention by becoming promiscuous and perhaps finding themselves in really bad situations? My fiancée may call himself the stepfather but he has really come to be her father. He came into her life when she was still very young and we have formed a family. I believe if more people could integrate and become close as we have done, folks out there with step children could experience greater closeness and trust and the children would have a sense of loving protection with strong links between themselves and their parents. It is sad that the world is as it is and that a person can be made to feel weird about something that is totally respectful, loving and kind.
I am a stepdaughter myself and had a bad experience with my biological father. My parents split up when I was nine, and at ten I had a stepfather - I wish I had been younger when my stepfather came into the picture because I know we would have been a lot closer. My experience with my biological father also tainted my view of men in general and it took me a long time to sort through this and to actually have some faith and trust in men and people in general. It is because of my fiancé’s love and respect towards me and my daughter that I have come to realize that not all men are perverts with evil schemes and plans. It is because of our family’s love and the bond between my daughter and my fiancé that I have been able to tell my stepfather I love him and I thank him for putting up with me - a hurt little girl who lacked that feeling of safety and acted like I hated him when really what I needed was to be held and held and held until I felt safe with him. My adult brain understands all this - my little girl brain needed to feel that sense of protection only he could provide.
I watched and still watch (although not at all with the same paranoia I had at first) very carefully at how my daughter interacted and interacts with my fiancé and there is absolutely not a doubt in my mind that any experience they have together is one of absolute love, respect and trust. My daughter has never given me indication or reason to worry about her and once again I am so very glad that she has the loving protection of two parents. I can understand my mom’s point of view here but I disagree. I think every child is different and every child needs to experience certain situations to grow and mature. I believe that my daughter missed certain experiences of feeling that loving protection as her biological father was not in the picture. I believe with every ounce of my being that having one opportunity to sleep beside the man she knows as her dad can only help her to grow into a well rounded human being. Every child deserves to feel that sense of security and love. I welcome any comments in regards to what I have written.
**LifeOnWry]/b], I didn’t intend to be particularly short with you, but the idea that it is deplorable or regrettable or “a shame” to give a phrase its generally-understood meaning made me impatient. The point is, people didn’t get “the wrong impression;” they got the right impression, which is why even the OP’er agreed the title of the thread should be changed. I’m sorry if I offended you. Pax?
It’s amazing how paedohysteria has gripped even the previously sane members of the SDMB. I really expected more reasonable attitudes here, of all places. Now I understand why I see so many minivans waiting at the school bus stop.
In defense of the OP’s title, I’ve had really killer OP’s sink completely off of the page within five minutes due to the increasingly high traffic on this site. Because of this, it makes perfect sense to use a provocative title to get people to actually pay attention to the post, which is getting increasingly hard to achieve on this site.
And though my opinion is the same, I do think now that my original posting was a little too tart in tone. I think you can chalk that up to the original thread title as well.
Pax, then.
extends hand
I don’t necessarily see harm in a father, even a step-father, sleeping with his daughter in the same bed. I can definitely see how a 10 year old would be afraid in a house all by herself and would want to sleep with dad.
What troubles me is the OPer’s preoccupation with it. For instance, he says that when he came home he told his fiance that the two of them had slept together in grandma’s bed. You know, in our 15 years of being parents, my husband has never come home from a father-daughter outing and felt the need to share with me that he slept in the same bed as our daughter. Why would he? It’s so completely innocuous, it’s not even worth mentioning.
Now, had he then mentioned that he gave her a forehead kiss and the only contact he had with her all night was once when she elbowed him and the another time when her knee touched him, then I’d start to get creeped out. That’s a bit too much attention to detail for something that is supposedly mundane.
And then he says that his fiance had already given him the green light to sleeping with the daughter. And that the mother-in-law found out about the sleeping arrangements and complained. Okay, what is the preoccupation with sleeping arrangements in this family?
The final straw is the OPer giving the thread an intentionally salacious thread title.
You know, it’s possible that the OP is completely innocent and he really has only paternal feelings for this child. If that’s the case, then I applaud him for stepping in and being such a great step-dad. But if he has one speck of sexual feelings for this girl, he should cool it with the kissing and cuddling.
I would like to thank you for providing the knee-jerk reaction that makes most Dads nervous to be affectionate with their daughters these days.
noblebaron, in the current climate of our fair country, while it is fine for you to share a bed with your daughter, Oakminster does provide the reason why you should probably refrain from this in the future. People will assume the worst. As you are not a blood relative, it is even more likely. After all we all know that all stepdads are predators in waiting. :rolleyes:
Jim
I appreciate that you were upfront about who was writing, but if you are going to participate in this thread for more than this one post, I’d suggest that you start your own account. Sharing a username is against board policy. A guest account is good for 30 days, which should be long enough for this, and - who knows? - you may find you like the SDMB.
My fiancée and I would like send a heartfelt and sincere thank you to all of the people who have supported us with their comments regarding this situation. We are also grateful to those who disagree or find my actions completely out of line at worst, or bad judgement at best. We thank you, because you have opened this topic up for discussion.
As most of us know, it is extremely common that people will read into things what they will, based on their own preconceptions, experience with the matter, etc. For instance, the lawyer who commented that he gets a bad feeling about this. Of course, your experience with situations like this has likely mostly been negative, either through your own cases, case studies or talking to other attorneys.
The reason I told my fiancée in the first place was because early on she and I made an agreement (because of her personal history) that I would always tell her in detail any situation that could possibly be construed as inappropriate.
We especially thank the people who have taken the time to share their own similar personal, positive experiences in this regard. I am glad there are other people out there that have healthy, positive outcomes to their similar situations.
One idea that a couple of posters brought up that I hadn’t really considered was that she might have a crush on me. With this in mind, I can see how sleeping beside her stepdad could have the potential to confuse her. This is the only time I have slept beside her in three years of being her dad and I probably never will again.
As far as kissing her on the lips, my own adopted parents kissed me that way up until I was an adult, and so did my grandmother, and this was never an issue for me. My parents are English, so maybe that’s an English thing, but I never thought anything of it.
If anyone is wondering why I wrote this post in the first place, it’s because I wanted to send it to my Mother and Father-In-Law to (hopefully) show them that some views are different then theirs.
We’re going to have a calm, sit-down talk about this and at least everybody’s position on this will be aired.
Please feel free to keep posting on this topic, as my fiancée and I will be checking this thread again.
Thank you,
-NobleBaron and NobleBaroness