I think my dad has given up, and I'm pissed at him.

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I’ve been avoiding talking to my dad lately. He blames his health issues on doctors, and doesn’t seem to have researched any of his problems. He should have lost weight in earnest when he was diagnosed with high blood pressure 15 years ago.

Now, it’s not just HBP, he also has type 2 diabetes, diagnosed 5 years ago. Did he lose weight or change his diet with that diagnosis? No. He gained weight. His kidneys started to show signs of problems about 6 months ago, and he was put on a restricted sodium diet.

Now, another specialist is added to the mix, and it’s been discovered that is aorta is enlarged (I don’t know by how much, he can’t tell me because he doesn’t ask or know to ask or doesn’t care). He was sent to a sleep center where the technician who watched him overnight said he stopped breathing 80 times. So now he uses a CPAP.

The last conversation I had with my dad, he pretty much said he expects to drop dead at any time. He blames his high blood pressure on the doctors who won’t do a full-body MRI to “find the blockage.” I don’t even know where to start with him, so I don’t start anything. I just kind of nod over the phone and try not to get confrontational. What’s going on in my head is, “Gee, I don’t know, you don’t think it’s all the steak and margarine and pasta and milk you eat?” And, “Well, maybe if you had changed your lifestyle and started taking care of yourself 15 years ago when this all started, you wouldn’t be so sick now. It’s never too late. Stop whining about food you can’t have and start concentrating on what you should be stuffing down your craw instead of giant hunks of red meat and margarine, and candy, and milk, and bread, and everything else.”

My mom is tired of trying to get him to do the right thing. She’s just about given up, and he’s going to leave her all alone. I think she will have to move in to the city with me because I’m starting to wonder if she’s starting to have some brain issues of her own. (She retired 18 months ago, and is starting to tell me the same things over and over. I haven’t determined yet if it’s normal retirement atrophy combined with the mind-numbing constant company of my dad and the TV, of if she’s really starting to have a problem.)

I’ve suggested he see a nutritionist, a registered dietitian who can give him a diet plan that he can more easily follow. My thinking on this is the onus is out of my mom’s hands this way, and he will have directions on lifestyle given by someone with “authority” who is not my mom telling him not to eat stuff. I don’t know how else to get him to change his thinking. He needs to change his brain from thoughts of “Waaa, woe is me, I can’t have this, and I can’t have that,” to thoughts of simply, “I don’t eat that, it’s not part of my choices in good foods.”

How do you get someone to change their thinking like that? You can’t. It has to be their choice. How the hell to you steer them into making that choice or they will die soon?

2

I feel for you, both my parents gave up at some point. No specific point in history, it was just more of a gradual thing.

My sisters were really upset and fought against it. Their relationship through the last few years of their lives honestly wasn’t that good. I didn’t fight against it, I helped them with what they needed help with and didn’t try to lecture or save them. My relationship with my parents actually got better in their last few years.

They accepted their reality, nothing they were going to start doing was going to make a hill of difference. I accepted my role, I assisted them where I could and was a sympathetic ear. My sisters fought it tooth and nail.

My mother stroked at 64. My father got ill when he was in his early 50’s. Neither of them were ever the same. I wished that they wanted to do better for themselves, but also realized that I had no control over the situation. Reailzing that you have no control, is actually very freeing. You can’t save people who don’t want to be saved. Don’t beat yourself up over it, stick with the safe conversations. Enjoy the time you have left with them, even if you’ve heard their stories thousands of times.

3

You can’t. You really can’t.

I know you want what’s best for your dad and I know that you can see very easy changes he could make to get healthier and face reality. But you can’t make this happen, not through will, not through talking or shouting or begging or praying.

I went through it with my alcoholic dad and with my husband who had diabetes and heart problems. Both died way younger than they should have (65 for Dad, 47 for my husband) because they didn’t choose to change. And there wasn’t anything I could do but love them and recognize that I can’t fix people.

4

I have no advice to offer. Will virtual hugs help?

I ride with Marines, many of them retired. There has only been one who made total life changes and that was only after a quad bypass. From what I understand, he made dramatic diet changes and has managed to get his blood pressure under control. Maybe your Dad hasn’t had the wake-up call he needs to get motivated.

Currently, I’m waiting for a very dear friend to drop from a stroke or heart attack. He says doctors are a waste of time because all they do is give him bad news and try to take the fun things out of his life.:smack:

I don’t think its wrong of you to be angry at him. I get mad at Tony all the time. (of course, I don’t let on, but the things I say on the inside…)

sends more virtural hugs and offers you some tea

5

Some people, quite frankly, choose to live a shorter life filled with the creature comforts to which they’re accustomed. It’s unfortunate that your mother and you will likely be victims of that choice when he passes away from his diet choices, but it is still his choice to make. Free will and all that. Every person puffing a cigarette, or doing a 72 ounce steak challenge, or drag racing on the freeway (among many other potential life-shortening pursuits) is making that choice, every day. This is… just life.

If someone told you you had to give up chocolate forever, in order to live an extra 7 days on earth, would you do it? I don’t know anybody who would. It’s all a trade-off. For me, an extra decade of life is not worth giving up cigarettes. Non-smokers think I’m stupid… I’m okay with that as it’s my life. Your dad has already made his choices. You can either accept that or berate him about it, but you’re not going to change him.

There’s really nothing you can do except be there for your mom. I’m sorry.

6

As long as you’re understanding about something like needing supplemental oxygen at age 70 or whatever might happen under that scenario, that’s a more valid point. Unfortunately, her dad hasn’t - outwardly, at least - accepted that it is his bad choices that are killing him. He still wants the doctors to wave their magic wand and make it all go away.

To the OP: If it hasn’t happened already, is there any chance that your dad would be willing to have you or another family member there with the doctor to “discuss options?” You could call the doctor and tell him/her that you think your dad is being unrealistic/deluded about what he needs to do, and that he still thinks there’s a “blockage” somewhere. It might not convince your dad of the truth, but at least you would be able to tell him, if needed, “you know the doctor told us that isn’t how high blood pressure works, there’s no blockage; you need to take your meds and lose weight.”

That being said, I’m not sure if even that would work. My father-in-law and mother-in-law dealt with her type II diabetes (she lost a lot of weight, which essentially put it into remission), and these days think they’re eating healthier if they put artificial sweetener in their coffee but eat pancakes and hash browns for breakfast. After his last “mini-stroke” and lots of dietary counseling and guidelines from the hospital they started using trans-fat-laden margarine because they thought that was healthy… well, not in comparison to cutting down on butter or using other fats that don’t have trans fats.

Dieting is hard enough for even the young who don’t have those associated health problems. I suspect he knows the real situation but doesn’t want to admit he’s killing himself slowly, and doesn’t want to do the tough work required. This way he gets to eat what he wants and bitch about those doctors being incompetent.

7

My father was similar. He had an aneurysm in the brain, and was given less than a ten percent chance of just surviving the brain surgery. This was back in the early 70s. He beat all those odds, came through it, lived for over a year, then died of a heart attack.

The man was a walking heart attack. He chain smoked, (lit a new cigarette, with the butt of his old cigarette), he ate junk and too much of it, never any exercise. He died when I was 11.

Do you know this man managed to get a cigarette into intensive care AFTER his brain surgery. (Of course in the 70s you could smoke in the hospital, so it wasn’t as hard, but you get the idea)

So what can you do?

For starters stop viewing this as your problem, it’s his and you have to tackle it as such.

Your father doesn’t want to be like he is. Who would? But I would bet London to a brick, that he just doesn’t know where to start. Often you are so overloaded and overwhelmed you just can’t do anything because you’re too close.

This is where you come in. Start with each problem he has and help him to correct it. Direct him, don’t just tell him, do it. And do it with him. Show him you’re a team, and your going to have to make a lot of effort to convince him you’re acting out of love for him and not fear of losing your father. They’re not the same thing.

You can’t change people who don’t want to change, but you can take the lead and show them how to start, to feel less overwhelmed and that they still have a future.

8

At least three of your dads health complaints can be solved, within a year, with little effort on his part, by weight loss surgery. A gastric bypass will solve his weight problem, and the related problem of sleep apnea and type 2 diabetes.
There is overwhelming evidence that weight loss surgery (gastric bypass) puts diabetes type 2 in full remission, in other words it cures diabetes type 2.

Most importantly, weight loss surgery helps to make appetite controllable. Eating healthily becomes much, much easier. It is no longer an uphill battle against willpower and hormonally triggered appetite. I had a gastric bypass surgery eight months ago and it is the best decison I ever made. Your dad sounds like a prime candidate as well. His only other option, frankly, is an early grave. His surgery will probably be covered by his health insurance. I don’t see a lot of other options for your dad.

If you want to know more, drop me a PM. Or read this book, Weight loss surgery for dummies.. If you want even more practical info, go to this site, of one of the best docs in the US who does this type of surgery, www.clos.net.

9

You’re taking the wrong approach. The more you push and prod him to change for the better, the more he will stay the same.

Start openingly planning his funeral, I say.

Go the whole nine yards with music you know he will hate and invite relatives he cannot stand. The most pimped out- ghettotastic casket. Some flamboyant suit he would *never * wear if he were alive and drunk with his best friends in their prime.

When he gets his dander up, and he will, just calmly say, " You’ll be dead, this is our party for putting up with you now"

10

i think its better to leave him as he is now.If you will do something that he doesn’t like may results worst.take care of him as you can

11

Remember that losing weight and other such lifestyle changes aren’t easy for anyone. People who do drastically change their life after finding out they have type 2 diabetes or high blood pressure are the exceptions not the rule, and for a good reason: it’s not easy to totally change after living a certain way your whole life.
Plus having chronic health problems can make someone feel depressed and discouraged, which doesn’t help motivation.

Nagging people often just annoys them instead of making them want to change. Try to focus on positive approaches. For example, what about making a friendly competition between the two of you to lose weight?
What about offering to come over and go for a walk with him on a regular basis?
Why not make a healthy snack and bring it over?

Focus on promoting good health and feeling better instead of trying to stave off death and he might be more receptive. Talking about death just makes people depressed and encourages them to go into denial mode.
And remember: even if you do everything right, sometimes people die prematurely due to a quirk of the universe. We all die sooner or later no matter what we do. So try to enjoy whatever time you have together and don’t let your frustrations about this poison your relationship with him.

12

You answered your own question. I surely do empathize with you, though.

My mom is a future version of your dad. She is 63 years old, 5’4, and weighs over 300 pounds. Her type 2 diabetes turned into type 1 years ago, yet she still won’t change how she eats and so every year she has to use more and more insulin. Her kidney function is significantly reduced. She has lymphedema in her legs. She’s had high blood pressure forever. The weight makes her spinal arthritis debilitating. She has had one of her knees replaced twice. She has neuropathy in her hands and feet. Her house is a monument to dirt and clutter because she doesn’t have the energy/ability to keep up with it, yet she won’t consider moving because it’s paid off and she doesn’t think she’ll be able to afford to live anywhere else. She retired at 61, partly for health reasons, and she has turned into something of a recluse: she only leaves the house for doctor’s appointments, which are numerous (she goes to the doctor, see, she just doesn’t do anything they tell her to do). She is convinced that she is going to live another 20 years, but I’ll truly be surprised if she sees 70. Offering to help doesn’t work (and I mean really offering to help; mentioning specific tasks, etc.). Being frank with her about my concerns doesn’t work. Getting angry doesn’t work. Nothing works.

And Maastricht, weight loss surgery isn’t easy/a no-brainer for everyone. My mother has looked into it in the past, to the point where I went to an informational seminar with her once a few years ago, but she’s afraid of it because she’s convinced she’s going to die on the table, and she’s also afraid that she won’t have the willpower to make the necessary changes in her lifestyle (for some reason gastric bypass isn’t an option for her, so she would get the lap band procedure). Also, she lives an hour away from me and won’t allow my dog in her house: I can’t kennel the dog for a week (or more) so that I can stay at her place and take care of her post-surgery, and she won’t agree to have the surgery here and recover at my house (she wants to recover in her own bed). My brother isn’t equipped to care for her post-surgery the way she would need to be cared for, and her best friend lives 200 miles away and isn’t able to take the time off work. She has no other friends. So, as far as my mom is concerned, the idea of having the surgery ends right there.

13

Thank you, everyone, for your support. I’m hoping some of his “dumpiness” has to do with this month being the 1-year anniversary of his brother’s death by heart attack. That brother was the fattest and unhealthiest (and the uncle I liked the best) of the family until his untimely death, and now my dad has the illustrious position of fattest and unhealthiest of the 5 remaining siblings. Grandpa died from a brain tumor, so now my dad pretty much thinks he’ll die of a brain tumor or a heart attack.

I will take all of your suggestions to heart. I do what I can, but I’m definitely closer to my mother than to my dad. We often communicate through her, but have had more phone conversations in the last couple years that lasted up to an hour - with no arguing! I think we can be so similar at times it gets in the way of getting along.

My mom was visiting me last Thursday (I’m an hour or so drive away), and while we were taking a cold and windy walk by the lake she told me about the living trust arrangements she and dad are making. All prompted by his most recent diagnosis piled on top of the others. He really seems to be thinking he’ll have an aortic aneurysm at any moment now.

Diggerwam, jsgoddess, Marxxx, and Misnomer, thank you for sharing personal stories and helping me see this is not a unique experience by any stretch! Flatlined, I love tea and hugs, I will gratefully accept both virtually!

Ferret Herder, since you asked specifically, I know my mom goes to the appointments with him, they both take each other to their appointments, but I don’t know if she actually goes in with him or is interactive otherwise with his doctors. My parents are weird sometimes with particular privacy issues - like they absolutely will not open each others’ mail - so I’ll have to ask her if she is actively involved with the appointments at all, or he will even let her. I think that would really help. I haven’t had a chance to talk to her about what Dad said last week to me about the “blockage” and where the hell he’s even coming from on that one.

I’m unfortunately discovering that neither of my parents are very proactive about educating themselves on their issues. Dad also blames doctors for overdosing him on Tylenol several years ago because different Tylenol products were being prescribed by different doctors and Dad was having the Rx’s filled at different pharmacies! When he told me that I was stunned, and the myriad of questions and (mildly) berating remarks I might have made, I held my tongue and just made “WTF” silence instead. I didn’t even know where to start, so I just didn’t. (That’s a pretty big step in maturity for my old age. I’m getting better.)

I often forget that perhaps my background in veterinary medicine shades my perceptions of what normal people do or don’t do before taking prescribed meds.

And Maastricht, gastric bypass is something I hadn’t even considered, but now that someone’s mentioned it, I kind of wonder why one of his doctors hasn’t. Maybe it was brought up and Dad nixed it immediately, but I’ll mention it. At this point, it really may be his best option. I don’t know how much of a surgical/general anesthesia candidate he is right now. He needs knee surgery too, and it hasn’t been scheduled. I think he may be considered higher risk now, between the blood glucose, kidney values, and enlarged aorta. But managing the knee may also be much easier if he was 100 pounds lighter. (He’s probably around 280 lbs., 6 ft tall, all the fat is in his abdomen and upper chest/neck.)

This post is way longer than planned. It really helps to just get some of this crap written down, and I appreciate everyone’s input, even if not directly addressed. Thanks again!

14

SeaDragonTattoo, it sounds to me like your father would benefit from a depression screening. You might be able to suggest it to his primary care doctor (although the doctor would not be able to discuss your father’s health with you, he or she might still take your suggestion into account). You could try to see if your father would let you go to the doctor with him.

For your own sake, consider getting some help to process all of the anger this is raising in you. The frustration you’re describing is perfectly normal, but it’s not good for your own mental health or your relationship with your father to have to keep it bottled up inside you. A therapist or someplace like Al-Anon can be helpful just as a place where you can let those feelings out.

15

I had a huge long post written out and the server ate it, so I will distill it to this: my dad was an alcoholic and chain smoker who died at 62, one and a half years ago, of emphysema and cirrhosis. Believe me when I say that my sisters, my mom, and I did everything we could think of to even get him to see a doctor, much less stop drinking and smoking. Lots of tears, yelling, cajoling, threatening. I would lie awake at night trying to think of the magic words that would make him understand what he was doing to everyone who loved him.

His body essentially shut down a little at a time over a period of about three years. My regret about my behavior during that time is that I didn’t spend time with him anymore as a father and a daughter. I avoided talking to him because it made me sad to see him; when I did talk to him, it inevitably devolved quickly into my trying to convince him to Do It For Us. Ultimately it just meant that I had even less time with Dad than I could have, and that’s on me. So my advice to you is to absolutely seize on any hint of effort to change he shows, and absolutely encourage him every step of the way, but don’t push him away, either, and try not to resent him too much for not trying, or not trying as hard as you think he should. We all die, some earlier than others, and since we can’t pick when we go…well. I would gladly give a year of my life for one more day with my dad, sick or sober.

16

That could have been my father 14 months ago. But then, he was diagnosed with COPD and told he’d need to wear an oxygen tank for the rest of his life, and he was humiliated. He signed up to meet with a nutritionist through the VA, and started exercising every day (mostly stretching at first; now a lot of walking). Last week he celebrated losing 100 pounds and he’s now down to around 250. His diabetes and HPB are totally under control without medication. It’s completely unbelievable.

So don’t give up hope completely. But he really has to want it.