Is the wrongness of genocide and human sacrifice a natural part of the universe that is not dependent on human perspectives? Or is it just something that a lot of humans at this particular time have decided is wrong?
If we could put ten Nazis and ten anti-Nazis in a room, how could the the anti-Nazis demonstrate that genocide is absolutely wrong and not just wrong as a consequence of subjectively created human codes (both moral and legal)?
Heck, can you just tell me how we know that genocide and human sacrifice are absolutely wrong?
(I would agree that we could say that genocide is objectively wrong under current human rights laws, but we can also say that genocide was objectively OK under the Nazi perspective.)
The reason I got frustrated here is that I’m really not sure why you bothered to take issue with my exact words in my early post. If you were upset for some reason that I didn’t qualify my post with “oh, this is just my opinion, but…”, then I did apologize - exasperatingly, but I did. Mainly I am sick to death of the strawman that the FLDS members are repeatedly putting up, that they are being persecuted for their “religion” and not for engaging in illegal activities. Saying that very young marriages are a part of that religion doesn’t let you off the hook.
I don’t agree with the law on all issues, but that still doesn’t change the fact that my opinion does not effect the law itself - only the opinions of lawmakers do. Recall that you originally opined that universal morality does not exist, and I countered that the non-existence of universal morality is irrelevant in this case as far as the potential for prosecution of the offenders is concerned (well, unless you want to nitpick my exact words). Again, I didn’t know where you were going with your original argument, so I was trying to back up my personal opinion with real world perceptions.
If you want to argue that ALL (or most) laws should be abolished because there aren’t any that don’t conflict with any one person’s own personal morality, well, I’m not really interested in arguing about that. I once engaged in a pretty heated debate on a similar topic with a poster on another board, and neither of us came away from the debate having changed our minds on the topic.
I really can’t adequately form an opinion on that, because this isn’t 1850. It’s very easy to look at society in retrospect and say, slavery was so wrong, why didn’t more people step up and do something about it? I can’t ask that question myself, because it’s impossible for me to personally feel what the people of 1850 were feeling. Undoubtedly many people of the era DID take a stand against slavery - obviously, because it does not institutionally exist today. However, slavery was such a major part of life in 1850 that undoubtedly a greater number of people could (sadly, IMO) not bring themselves to imagine life without it. If I had lived in 1850, I don’t think my feelings on slavery would be as clear-cut as they are here in 2008. I probably would not have approved of slavery, but I perhaps would not have felt as easy when decrying it. All I can do is have an opinion on the laws of 2008, and how I would hope for them to progress in the future.
Look, as I said, I don’t like every law. But I don’t think this notion of simultaneously agreeing and disagreeing with law in general is something that just a few people have. On one breath you wish for the conviction of a serial killer, on the next you sympathize with the sex toy salesperson brought up on obscenity charges or whatever your least favorite law is. I think most people are this way. Singling me out isn’t going to change that. One can applaud the ability of laws to serve society and still hope for them to evolve to serve society better and more fairly in the future. That’s precisely why laws change over the years.
Interesting. I have not read anywhere that any of the parents involved in the case are being chared with bigamy. I wonder why not, if your reading of the law is correct.
I’m not sure that anyone has been criminally charged with anything, yet. I understand that the big push is to have the children placed in state care for abuse/neglect, but I don’t think I’ve heard of any arrests/indictments.
I have every confidence that at some time the leaders of the sect and polygamist husbands of child brides will be charged with a raftload of offenses, including bigamy, but I suspect that the state is taking the time to deal with the children and then build their cases on full evidence.
No cite, but I’ve read that they didn’t take all the kids – just the girls and a few of the boys they thought were specifically being groomed as future rapists. That’s why the discrepancy.