In all the media coverage of the polygamist sect and removal of the children (and now return of the children), I see very few men, other than law enforcement or child welfare people. It’s been only the women who’ve been photographed, filmed, and interviewed by the media (and been the butt of jokes). There have been a few reports regarding their so-called prophet, Jeffs, who is in jail. A group of women even appeared on a news show (20/20 I think). I get the impression that the men are hiding behind the women. Now whether or not the women are accessories, or aiding and abetting or whatever, clearly it is the men who established the sect, are in charge of it, brainwash women, abuse, marry, and have sex with under-age girls. So where the hell are the MEN? I realize that law enforcement and welfare people are probably talking to them, but why aren’t the media after them digging for info as they are the women?
Women and children generate more sympathy. It’s not an uncommon tactic.
i’m reckoning on them waiting on the dna results. once they know who is the father (s) of the babies born to underage girls there will be spotlights and cameras galore.
Yeah I suspect the appearance on-camera of a crusty elderly dude alongside his bevy of extremely young wives, would dissipate ALOT of the public sympathy they are getting for the removal of their children.
I haven’t followed the story that much, but as far as I have read, only one man was arrested-for obstructing justice during the raid. All the legal action has been taken with the women and children. The men have been pretty much left alone. Until the legal system comes up with evidence-and DNA and age determination makes that only a matter of time-there isn’t much to say about the men.
Warren Jeffs is the only prson connected to this with a name publicly attached. I’d say he’s in the spotlight.
Since this fiasco was sparked by a crank call out of Colorado and the kids have been returned to their parents because CPS illegally removed them, will any evidence even be examined?
I heard about the men’s DNA being tested; so what? Who’s to say that the women shown and interviewed are the biological mothers of the children? My question stands: why aren’t the media chasing down the men? I just saw a bunch of media types asking some of the women about how they feel about the children being returned. Well, how do the fathers feel about it? Where are they? Hiding out in the compound? Being held in a safe house? Jeez, the people (men) in charge and who are committing crimes are not being subjected to public scrutiny as the women are. So if the state obtains some evidence that children have, in fact, been abused, I guess it’s the women who are going to be prosecuted, eh?
absolutely.
grand juries are already investigating. besides the ethical and legal imperatives, the system will be desperate to show that they were right all along.
I don’t think the women will be prosecuted-what for? who would convict them? As for interviewing the men, uh it isn’t like they can be required to be interviewed. And a few men have been interviewed. I saw one interview where the husband and wife (just one) were complaining that all they were doing was driving all over Texas visiting their children in foster homes. They had several kids and they would visit one, driver 400 miles, visit another, drive to the third, lather rinse repeat. Anyway, both parents were calm but not very happy with the situation.
I am in no way an O’Hair-tract thumping atheist, and neither am I a Bible-thumping Christian. I suppose I come down somewhere in the middle. My wife, for instance, is Catholic. She rarely goes to Mass, but I know she believes in it absolutely. Religious people do seem to get something positive in their lives out of religion. Oddly enough, most Mormons I’ve ever run into, of the mainstream LDS variety, usually seem to be quite happy and have a generally positive outlook on life. That’s great for them.
But what I see here, with recent developments in the FLDS case, is religion getting a pass. It’s obvious that some very serious laws in the larger community are being broken. I understand that the police can’t just go in and round all the men up. Not all the men are committing criimes against female minors, and it’s important to properly build a case and move against the right suspects. But I’m shocked they let the children go back.
I think it took a long time for Americans to realize how brutal the Taliban were, when they were still controlling Afghanistan. People probably heard the phrase “religious state” or “religious government” and thought, “ooh, isn’t that like the Dalai Lama, before the Communists took over? Gee, the Dalai Lama was all right wasn’t he? Isn’t religion supposed to be good, basically?”
The DNA testing of everyone is to absolutely establish parentage. An example:
Baby Lukas is now 2 years 4 months of age
Mother Sarah is now 17 years 3 months of age, and was 14 years 9 months of age when she delivered Baby Lukas.
DNA tests prove that 38 year-old Mahlon is the father of Baby Lukas.
Ergo, 38 year old Mahlon raped the then 14 year old Sarah. It is pretty well an open & shut case of rape.
38 year old child rapist Mahlon can scream religious persecution from here to Palmyra NY, but the evidence against him would be overwhelming.
I understand that the FLDS has hired attorneys; I don’t know whether they’ve also hired PR firms, but that wouldn’t surprise me. I suspect that whoever is advising the FLDS has advised them to keep the men out of the spotlight. Women, particularly women who have been separated from their children, are very sympathetic. The media may be chasing down the men, but if the men won’t talk the media still want to sell papers/fill airtime, so they’ll take who they can get.
As a PR strategy, it’s simple but effective: put the women out front, because so far no one really wants to pass judgment on them (they’re just the innocent oppressed victims of the depraved men, and all they really want is to get their kids back), so the women have become the face of FLDS. Which, of course, makes for better publicity than showing the lecherous old men.
In other words: the FLDS is playing the media, and the media is swallowing it up whole.
Of course, they could be proscecuted for allowing child abuse to happen to children in their care and not doing anything to stop it. They would argue that they were forced to comply or face getting kicked out of the sect or whatever.
Another possibility is that proscecuters may be able to show that some adult women benefited in some way (power, status, privileges) by being more involved in the “matchmaking” process with thier own children or children of families that they had some influence on. I am not sure how the children were “passed out” to the church elders and whether or not their families benefited in some way by having their children hook up with elders with higher status.
Does a middle-aged guy with a harem of teenage girls have time to be interviewed?
He probably needs the time out. :eek:
How can DNA evidence establish parentage? It’s my understanding that many of the men are closely related to each other, and that DNA evidence can’t distinguish between “father” and “uncle” with anywhere near the same certainly that it can distinguish between unrelated potential fathers. Even if mom was 14 when she gave birth, if they can’t prove which of 3 or 4 guys did it, and no one owns up, who would they prosecute?
Well, if I (an adult woman) knowingly marry someone who already has multiple wives, doesn’t that make me party to a crime? An accomplice? In a previous thread on the subject, [post=9711673]Billdo[/post] said that in his opinion, under Texas law these FLDS marriages would be violating the Texas law on bigamy.
I’m not a legal expert, but I would just ask the woman “who is your husband” and then prosecute him under the assumption that he is the father. Of course, he could try and use the defense that his wife was sleeping around and neither she nor he know who the real father is, but I don’t know that an FLDS member would want to use that defense.
The Court of Appeals and Texas Supreme Court ruled that the state can’t just round up all the children by sort of the same logic that they can’t just round up all the men. Texas law is pretty specific about when a child can be removed from a home; there has to be a concrete danger to the physical health or safety of the child. What the Courts were saying was that it wasn’t enough for the state to say “there’s a widespread pattern of arranged marriages of teenaged girls in this group, so we need to remove every single one of the children to be on the safe side.” They have to show how each individual child is in immediate danger, and with the vast majority of the children, they couldn’t do it.