Well, I was talking about this board. As to the world at large - you’ve got a point,
Cite?
I’m especially sick of THIS lie.
The radio commercials James Socus used against Frank Wolf in the race for the 10th District of Virginia.
Thank you, I appreciate it. (I’m feeling a bit more mellow now-it’s kinda hard to get angry when kitten crawls in your lap).
That’s why God created kittens! (Do you have any pictures of your precious kitty? Cat pictures are always a good idea!:))
God, guns, and gays. This isn’t my personal conservative list, by the way, and its dreadfully oversimplified of course, but it conveys representative concerns of much of rural- middle- and southern-America (a/k/a “large segments of the population that your side lost yesterday”). Middle-conservative America does not favor gun control, objects to the perceived push to strip God from every aspect of public life, and strongly disfavors gay marriage. Where this Board is concerned at least, these stances lead a poster to be immediately called (in order): a fascist; a fundie; and a bigot. Communication ceases and then when awful things happen like every single state that considered a ban on gay marriage passing the measure by double digits, you people are stunned – stunned – that it happened. And immediately start hopping up and down calling the voters – anyone? anyone? – that’s right: bigots. Or idoits, or worse.
The truth is that many American liberals have assiduously cultivated an “I’m right and you’re stupid” attitude, with the result that many honest to God do not understand the values or motivations of large segements of the country – heck, most of the country outside of New England and the fringe of the western seaboard. There is no attempt to understand the conservative POV or conservative concerns, beyond an at best patronizing attempt to “educate” us on how “wrong” we are. Then, when the shoe drops, they stand around mystified by what happened. I agree with Senator Kerry (whom I greatly admire for his actions of the last couple days): we must work to come together as a country and build consensus. But I would respectfully suggest that since your side is the one that is now losing ground with every national election, the motivation to figure out how to meet in the middle should certainly be yours. And frankly I don’t know if you can do it, because if you really, truly think we’re a bunch of knuckle-dragging evil know-nothings, then the thought that you might actually have to stoop to work with us must be some bitter medicine to take.
So here’s a bunch of unsolicited advice to the Democratic party from a Republican: See this election for what it was, and take your medicine. First, the Democrats must understand that much of the country is significantly less liberal that the D-party is perceived to be. You have lost the mantle of “moderates” to the Republicans, though you can certainly make a strong argument that they don’t deserve it. Be that as it may, they have it, and if I were you, I’d work to get it back. This will require you to at least appear less stridently liberal. Second, this election certainly put a stake in the heart of the idea of the Southern Democrat, bastion of LBJ. You’d better work to get them back, too, and if you think you can do that without moving to your right somewhat, you’re dreaming. Third, you’d better swallow your pride and start making concessions, understanding that half a loaf is better than none. For example, with crystal clear evidence that America is not ready for gay marriage, leave your “ignorant homophobes” rhetoric at home and start crusading for civil unions leading to government benefits and entitlements, even if that means you will have to accept – for now – something less than the full right to equal marriage that you would like to have. 51% of the nation just waved at you – Yoo hoo! We’re over here! – and if you want to bring them back, you’re going to have to go get them. That means talking their talk and addressing their concerns, and doing so respectfully. I think the Democratic Party can do that – not many dems on this board, mind you, most of whom I think would slit their wrists first. But fortunately even the liberal wing of the Democratic Party isn’t as liberal as you lot.
So there’s my unsolicited two cents. Other than that, I’m just here to shake BRICKER’s hand. 
Jodi, I know these aren’t your own feelings (on the gay issues, at least), but are you suggesting that the Democrats have to throw the gays, lesbians and transgenders to the wolves to get votes? And are you suggesting that that’s acceptable if your goal is to get votes?
We do, but they haven’t been developed yet. I will try to get them to Copy Max or Kinkos when we do (or see if we can’t get a photo disk)
JAYJAY –
Yes. Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. As you can clearly tell from my posting this:
First, back up to civil unions and then – releast the wolves!
My apologies if my sarcasm is dripping on you.
I am sorry. It’s 2:30 AM. I’m obviously not reading as well as I should be.
Let’s make a quick distinction here.
I consider very few people on the SDMB to be stupid, R or D. However, while I have the greatest respect for conservative Dopers- especially you, Brick- I have yet to meet a person in real life who was voting (or voted) for Bush for any reason beyond ignorance.
Most people don’t and will never understand economics. I accept this, realizing that much of the discipline is abstract and often counterintuitive. Thus, I don’t judge people on their economic positions. You think that $300 you got last time around helped you out and didn’t do any harm to anyone else, so be it.
However, if you think that a few months in the Texas Air National Guard- much of which may or may not have been spent in a series of Alabama bars- equals even an hour in a Vietnamese jungle with blood seeping out of you, you’re a retard.
If you thought Saddam was responsible for 9/11 because Rush told you so, you’re a retard.
If you voted based on the President’s handling of the War on Terror and never read the 9/11 Commission report, you’re a retard.
If you thought gay marriage somehow threatens “straight” marriage, you’re a retard.
These are all positions held by people I know who voted for Bush. I won’t even mention the “But Kerry speaks French!”-type arguments.
Anyway, the point here is while I don’t think you’re stupid, I do think that most of those who vote for Bush are.
By definition, half the population is less intelligent than the mean. Bush got 51%, give or take. Half the population + intelligent conservatives [probably] = 51%…
One does hope that the money was sheltered before depositing
Declan
Bricker’s lucky he got some straight up bets here on the SDMB. He would have only got 3/5 of a bottle of wine off his bookie.
But it’s true: America is moving towards social conservatism and massive government spending+tax cuts. Hopefully in the second term it will be directed more towards faith-based initiatives and less to military adventures.
My God, you people really are clueless. Oh, well. Shrug You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t keep it from calling you a retard. But it’s nice to see the efforts at consensus-building start so early!
They lost the presidency. They lost in the Senate. They lost in the House. They lost ballot initiatives. They lost their young people voter turnout campaigns (on which they expended enormous time, energy, and money.) They’re going to lose judges and justices. Lose 5 more Senate seats, and they’ll lose the ability to filibuster. They truly lost badly.
Several points:
(a) Who was stunned? Who actually thought that any of those amendments (wih the exception of Oregon) was going to pass? Granted, we all had some amount of hope that Kerry would win. But then, you all had some amount of fear that Kerry would win. So don’t paint us as naive idiots who had no idea that any one of our Bright Shining Ideas could possibly go down in defeat
(b) There’s a HUGE difference between the liberal population of the SDMB and any liberal person in a position of power. For instance: I feel no compunction in saying that opposition to gay marriage is a bigoted opinion. Bigoted bigoted bigoted. Wrong. Evil. Bigoted. If I were a politician, I probably wouldn’t say that. But there’s no point in you giving us advice as to how the Democratic party as a whole should handle itself, regardless of whether your advice is right or wrong. That’s particularly true for people like me who live in areas like Silicon Valley. It’s not like I even have Republican friends or coworkers to rub the wrong way.
(c) There’s also a fundamental difference between some issues and others. Some issues are things where reasonable people can not only disagree, but can immediately and easily project themselves into their opponent’s positions. If you think that drug benefits for seniors should be handled one way, and I think drug benefits for seniors should be handled another way, well, we can both realize that we both want good things for seniors, we just disagree about implementation. But other issues, PARTICULARLY gay marriage, are much harder to bridge. If you take someone who wants a gay marriage, and someone who wants to make gay marriage and civil unions unconstitutional, and ask them to understand each other’s opinions, what the hell are they going to do? They don’t even share a common goal. And liberals in that issue can’t help but feel persecuted in that many of them, literally, ARE being persecuted. They are having rights actively stripped away or denied to them. It’s easy for you to sit there and say “hey, when you disagree with me on issue Y I don’t get all emotional, and I understand you” when issue Y is NOT something that personal and immediate to you. Just about the only thing I can think of that’s even comparable right now that might cause some conservatives to feel equally attacked is the issue of “Under God” in the pledge, and so forth. And that’s a feeble analogy at best, because however paranoid people might be about the nefarious hidden agenda of the liberals, John Kerry didn’t publically endorse a frickin AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION removing God from the pledge. My point, again, being, assuming that Christianity is as important to you as love is to a gay man, wait until someone proposes a constitutional amendment saying that you can’t read the bible ever, and see how compromising and calm and political and all friendly-coalition-building you’re willing to be.
To put it all another way, every bit of your advice may be valid and useful. But the anti-gay-marriage position is still Wrong with a capital W. And the idea that liberals want to interfere with anyone’s free exercise of religion is about as plausible as the idea that conservatives will be taking their legally purchased firearms and hunting gays for sport. Maybe its impolitic of me to say that in such a bald and uncompromising fashion, but I’m still right.
(All that said, and my post did get a bit harsh, I try not to make sweeping generalizations about any group, including Bush supporters. I despite the Bush presidency, the election campaign they ran, and many of the things that motivate people to vote for him, but I make no claim of the “All Bush Supporters are X” type.)
Jodi, just out of curiosity and if you don’t mind me asking, what kind of position/argument would it take to have you consider the opposition’s side (on say, gay marriage or civil unions)? Not that you take that stance individually, but since you bring it up, as a whole. And if you would give whatever you suggest thought, what are the chances that you’d actually vote in that direction? Why? Why not? And either why, what would make you pick your final decision?
Thanks. I’d really like to understand where everyone is coming from. I’m sure you’re opinion will help me grow and become more well-rounded.
That part was pretty obviously a joke. Way to ignore the substance of my post.
Congratulations on your win, Bricker. Enjoy the Lagavulin and I’ll see you in 2008.
Jodi, thank you very much for your comments. I’ve always looked forward to your input, even though it seems that calm and reasoned posts get shouted down very quickly. I’m glad you had something to say in this thread.
Re-read post #53, it makes the point quite well, and it doesn’t even call you a partisan idiot once.