I’m not sure when registrars stop “cleansing” and consider every registered voter from that point on all the way through final recounts to be valid even if “problems” appear later.
IOW, I agree that if you’ve been cleansed before they send ballots, then you won’t get one. But once they’ve printed your ballot and sent it, there’s IMO no guarantee you can’t be cleansed later. Further, there are 50 states and 4500 counties in the USA. So probably 50 + 4500 different answers based on local laws.
Certainly there are things that can cause a ballot to be disregarded. If you didn’t sign it properly. If it got mangled in transit. If it got wet and became difficult to read. But in general, if you aren’t registered (because you got “cleansed”), a ballot will never be sent.
If you go to a polling place and claim to be registered, they may let you complete a provisional ballot.
I’d need to see a cite for this. While there are certainly many variations in how ballot counting is handled, there are some things that are substantially the same. Being registered to receive a ballot is one of them.
I think we are talking past each other over a nuance point of logic. I agree registration is necessary to receive a ballot.
It seemed to me that you asserted that, having received a ballot, that was proof positive that your registration was guaranteed to be good up through Election Day and the ballot counting. Such that there was no risk of being de-registered by ratfuckery in the meantime. Yes, your ballot could be lost, or you could mis-vote it, spoil it, void it, or … . But de-registration was off the table absolutely. Or so I understood you to say.
I was suggesting that the only thing registration proves, is that you were registered at the time the computer printed your ballot mailing label. There are no guarantees you’ll remain registered after that. Again due to rampant ratfuckery in some jurisdictions.
Of which I’m asking you to cite at least one instance.
It’s true that if you register and then miss voting in an election, you risk being booted off the rolls. And you won’t receive a subsequent ballot. But I’m not aware of any instance, anywhere, that if you got to the point of having a mailing label printed, there isn’t a ballot to go with it.
That’s what I’m asking for. A citation for a single instance of what you’re saying can happen.
Seems more than “one.”
In elections, every vote counts. Or should count. But a new study by an MIT professor indicates that in the 2016 U.S. general election, 4 percent of all mail-in ballots were not counted — about 1.4 million votes, or 1 percent of all votes cast, signaling a significant problem that could grow in 2020.
The study quantifies the range of reasons for this, including late-arriving ballots, problems with ballot signatures and envelopes, and improperly marked ballots, among other things.
You’re misunderstanding what @LSLGuy is asserting.
I laid out several scenarios where a ballot won’t be counted after it has been completed and mailed in.
@LSLGuy is saying that you’ll not receive a ballot when the process has already reached the point of having a mailing label printed. I’m saying I’ve never seen an instance of that.
Your concern was that you’d be “cleansed” from the voter rolls but still somehow receive a ballot. Can you or he please cite a single instance where that has happened?
I’m not denying that there are opportunities for ratfuckery in situations where ballots have been completed and returned to the elections offices. They are extremely rare and involve corrupt elections officials. But that’s not what either of you are asserting.
As a completely separate observation having nothing to do with the discussion above:
If I receive a ballot, then I’m legitimately registered to vote. I will then be able to follow the progress of that ballot from the time I submit it to be counted to the time it has actually been received and counted. I’ll bet you can, too. If there is a problem with my ballot, say a signature is rejected or the ballot has been mangled, my elections office will contact me and give me an opportunity to remedy the defect. Doesn’t yours?
Well, you can request an absentee ballot from North Carolina (assuming you are a resident there) via their website.
North Carolina purged voter rolls a week ago (750,000 people).
While I cannot cite a specific case I think it is very reasonable to think someone got mailed a ballot who was purged from voter rolls later. It takes a lot of time to print all these things up. It is not one day they purge voters and the next the perfectly correct list is mailed out.
But I have no proof of that particular problem happening. Considering the great lengths republicans go to for ratfuckery to not count votes this seems very plausible.
This…doesn’t sound right. I’m not aware of any jurisdiction in Illinois where you can print out your own ballots to fill out. The ballot scanners have very specific requirements for size and paper stock. Am i misunderstanding something?
There’s a breakdown that shows how the total was reached.
I’ll tell you why I’m being so myopic about it.
There are plenty of ways that Republicans fuck with voting that is Ratfuckery Supreme, and we should focus on stopping that. But anything other than that is simply sowing doubt in an election system that has served us well for more than two centuries, and it undermines confidence in what is and has been a very well run system.
What changed is one miserable piece of shit who showed up and didn’t care how deeply he undermined our foundational institutions to save his own skin from going to jail for committing crimes. And I don’t think that’s a decent reason to start doubting our election system.
I think it is. Why didn’t NC do this six months ago instead of six weeks before the election? And, the purge is not as clean as you make it out to be. I get the state needs to clean these voter rolls but this is not a good way to do it.
The original complaint is founded on the unsupported assertion that the voter registrations of 225,000 people are invalid and subject to cancellation because there is no driver’s license number or social security number on their submitted voter registration forms. The flawed complaint fails to recognize that, until December 2023, voter registration forms made this information optional rather than mandatory. Like other recent cases filed in North Carolina and throughout the United States, this litigation falsely claims election results are being swayed by illegal ballots — a conspiracy theory for which there is no evidence.
I am not the person who is defending what North Carolina did. I simply showed you the breakdown of how they arrived at their numbers. I never said it was “clean.”
Have you checked to see if you’ve been “cleansed” from the voter rolls? That’s the first thing I’d do if I had any concerns about it.
Sound right or not, this is what happened. They sent the ballot and envelope as an pdf attachment and I printed them, filled them out, cut along the dotted lines and folded them to fit into the envelopes and mailed them.
This was sent by the county election board? Or who was it from?
I’m in Chicago and the only way I will get my mail in ballot will be in the snail mail from the Chicago Board of Elections. I agree with @Folly that something about this doesn’t sound right, at least in my experience.
ETA: Looking at the website for the Illinois State Board of Elections it appears that what @Hari_Seldon is saying would line up with voters with certain disabilities such as blindness, low vision and certain other physical disabilities. I was not aware this was an option but I think it is great the State is doing this.
Oct. 8th here in Ohio is the start of early voting and the sooner a ballot is counted, the less work needs be done on election day. I think.
I was one of the people who opened and recorded mail-in ballots for the primary this year. So maybe it feels less mysterious to me.
But if you were somehow removed from the voting rolls between getting a ballot in the mail and having your ballot counted, then if you had, instead, tried to vote in person you would be told you weren’t registered and be turned away.
Some states do have a problem with invalidating an unreasonable fraction of mailed votes. Honestly, if you live in PA, i recommend that if you want to vote by mail, do it early enough that you can check that your vote was accepted
You can check the status of your ballot on Pennsylvania’s website.
Or if you want the satisfaction of physically voting, and don’t want to wait on line on election day, take advantage of PA’s early voting, and vote in person early.
- Early voting is available at your local election office or other designated locations. Check Pennsylvania’s site to find where to cast your in-person mail ballot or contact your local election office to find where to cast your in-person mail ballot.
(In addition to being the swingiest of swing states, PA does invalidate more mailed votes than most states. So it’s really worth checking that your vote counted. If you discover as problem early enough, you can fix it.)
Could you cast a provisional ballot in person?
Probably. But if you were purged, that provisional ballot isn’t going to get counted.
If you are not legally able to vote in a given place then fine. Being barred from voting is proper.
I think the issue we worry about is being improperly removed from the voter rolls.
IIRC it was mentioned that there is no notice if you have been purged from a state’s voter rolls. If you vote in person and are told you can’t vote you can cast a provisional ballot and fight the state over your voting status.
If you vote by mail and follow your vote on your state’s dashboard, you can also fight it.
Interesting. I’m betting those votes get transferred to a scannable ballot by pollworkers at some point in the process.