** tanookie seems to have no appreciation for the ways that years of abuse can warp a human mind. Some people manage to create functional lives out of the mess, some are forever scarred, and some are broken. She doesn’t see it – any and all claims that childhood abuse might be partly responsible for later maladaptive behavior are dismissed rather callously.
Yet she expects sympathy because her father “forced” her to lie to a lawyer.
Are you familiar with the parable of the talents?
I’m not coming off well? When tanookie demands respect, concern, and compassion that she’s unwilling to grant to others?
I’ve got news for you, buddy – neither you nor she are “coming off well”.
Well, I’m not quite sure how it would be that I would somehow not come off well from this little exchange, but so be it. Funny, that I was the only post after yours that didn’t take an adversarial approach, though.
However, I took your disbelief at her being “forced” to lie for her father at face value. Somehow, your clever and subtle sarcasm was smothered in your ensuing vitriol.
If you in fact, don’t believe that a child couldn’t be coerced into providing false testimony to cover up for the abuse perpretrated on them by an authority figure, then I now get it. Though I’m still not sure why you decided to come out with both guns blazing instead of making your point a little more gently. (I understand this is the Pit.)
Look, TVAA, all abuse leaves some form of scar. You can become the most socially well adjusted indivudiual in the WORLD after having gone through hell, but there will always be some scar that will stick around with you. You can’t shake off your history just like that. I think we all agree on that.
The question becomes what you do with it - sure, it can explain some behaviors. It shouldn’t be an EXCUSE for criminal behavior. An EXPLANATION, sure, but not an excuse.
Do you see a difference in the following two scenarios?
A) an ex-abused adult goes around murdering people and blames it on the abuse he suffed as a child.
B) a child, still living with an abuser, lies to an authority figure (without any “illegal” overtones, here) to save his life.
Well I’ve never thought of myself as an attention whore before … I’ve been here for a year and a half give or take and out of almost 2000 posts I’d be surprised if even 100 of them were about my father’s abuse. Those that were, however, were always in the context of the thread presented and generally in response to someone asking how they could deal with their own concerns.
I never said how old I was when the lawyer incident happened (under 18) and I did not explain that we had been around the ‘what happens if I leave home before I’m of legal age’ argument before. He vowed to have me declared a runaway and returned to him and as I hadn’t gotten any help from any of the people I had told about what was happening I didn’t have a lot of reason to doubt his claims or to believe that telling yet another person would get me any help. I also was not looking for sympathy because he made me lie but was answering the question posed earlier about why I hadn’t pressed charges. I was under the impression I could not. Bricker has given me a lot to think about and I plan to follow his advice and see where it leads me.
I do understand that everyone handles things differently and that in some ways I was very lucky. I started this thread because I get very angry with the way the media and the lawyers tend to make it sound like everyone who was ever abused will automatically turn to a life of crime. This kind of assumption makes it much harder for people to admit what they went through out of fear of being seen as a criminal waiting to happen.
I have a great deal of compassion for people up to a point. Eventually, after they make enough bad choices, you cease to feel for them and have to instead turn your compassion onto the people they are now hurting and if someone is so fundamentally broken by whatever has happened to them they need to be taken out of society lest they cause further damage to even more people.
TeaElle, where the hell did you hear that?? Everything I’ve ever read about Jeffrey Dahmer was exactly the opposite of what you’re saying. Jeffrey had a fairly uneventful childhood, which made his case a curiosity, since it has been suggested so many times that a criminal is what his past has made him. Jeffrey did not have a dark childhood, no abuse, nothing. He was who he was, and could not place blame on anything or anyone but himself. Some people are just bad because they are.
If you have information that I haven’t read, please give me a cite; I’d like to read it. But so far everything I’ve read about him has contradicted you. You can check out www.crimelibrary.com for starters, if you’d like.
** “I want to sue my father for abusing me. Yes, I stated in a legal document that he never touched me – but he forced me!”
:rolleyes:
** I agree that people who claim not to be responsible for crimes because of abuse are morons at best and evil at worst. But tanookie didn’t just talk about those people – she Pitted the idea that a person’s past might have a bearing on their total culpability for a crime. After all, she turned out all right, didn’t she?
I understand fully how she could have been intimidated and terrified into saying whatever her father wanted her to. I also understand how childhood sexual abuse can cause people to do the same thing to their children, despite not “wanting” to hurt them physically or emotionally. tanookie doesn’t seem to understand that part, and it seems to me that she’s evading responsiblity for the lies she told by blaming her father. That is precisely the sort of thing she claims to be complaining about.
Since I have no compassion for tanookie precisely because she has no compassion or empathy for others, I think you should really re-think that attack.
If she had merely attacked those people who try to excuse their behavior with past abuse, I would have agreed wholeheartedly with her. But instead she claims people cannot evade responsibility for their actions because everyone chooses their own actions, and she chose to turn out just fine.
People do not choose whether they are mentally damaged by sexual abuse. And if tanookie cannot understand how abuse can perpetuate itself, she doesn’t deserve compassion.
Coldfire: An official warning of what, exactly? “Decorum” isn’t exactly a necessary requirement for the Pit.
It means you stop posting to this thread, now. It also means that a further demonstration of your obviously lacking interpersonal skills along the lines we’ve seen here, may result in the revocation of your posting privileges.
TVAA, I find your behavior astounding. Truly.
In tanookie’s original post, she states clearly that she abhors the fact that Gary Sampson is claiming a lack of responsibilty for his heinous crimes because he was abused.
I don’t really see any evidence that she lacks compassion for him-however, she does find the the murder of 3 people horrible and she does assert that we are all ultimately responsible for our actions regardless of what we may have suffered in the past.
I also doubt that she simply choose to be “fine” one day- I suspect that it took years of bitter emotional pain and suffering to become the woman that she is today.
While you have a perfect right to disagree with her ideas, I think that, by accusing her of being an attention whore etc., you’re coming off as an angry and bitter person.
What is it about her argument that elicts such a nasty personal response from you?
While I agree with the point TVAA is making, his style is pretty fucking harsh. Tanookie, without trying to put words in his mouth, I think he meant that abuse can permanently disable a person’s ability to make sound decisions. I don’t think this means everyone gets a pass, but it certainly explains why some people continually make bad decisions. It’s beyond their control.
TVAA, your technique could use some serious polish.
Folks, TVAA’s been told off, and if he knows what’s best for him, he won’t post in this thread again. Since that also means he can no longer defend himself here, please cease attacking him. The point’s been made.
I expected to be flamed which is why this went into the pit. I know there are other opinions than mine and that mine isn’t perfect. I also do understand what you are saying Kalhoun but if there is a person who cannot make good decisions and is dangerous then they need to not be allowed to continue to be dangerous.
Also, I never wanted to sue my father. I had a therapist who asked me if I wanted to pursue some kind of legal action against him for the reason that he could be out there hurting another child. When I inquired then about that I was told the statute of limitations had run out and my only option was a civil suit. I stated this earlier in response to Ivylass’ question.
I do not, however, want to see this come to something someone would get banned over. Before this becomes a complete train wreck I’d be thrilled if it could be closed.
I have a real problem with anyone elevating themselves by walking on the backs of others. I am pleased tanookie has made the life that she has and I am not offering excuses for serial killers but I think there is danger in not recognising that abuse can be incredibly damaging and the victims of such cannot all pull themselves up and get on with it.
There are so many factors that go into whether or not abuse will be crippling it is impossible to predict who will and who will not cope. I turned out finally to be a coper, I have been to the funerals of many who were not and have also known plenty of folks who spend time going from psych hospital to prison in endless seeming cycles. None of them have struck me as folks with a whole lot of choice. If good help was available they may eventually reach a level of having choice but in general there is nothing for them to grab.
The OP stinks of If I can they should be able to and that is bullshit be it about quitting smoking, losing weight, winning an olympic marathon or healing from abuse. Every person is different.
