Hey Andrea
I would suggest that you share you story and possibly ask for advice in this Facebook Group.
Lets see
*He was a teacher
*He had an obvious erection
*He made the student undertake poses which seemed more provocative than technical
- Gave her an unasked for massage.
*Probably climaxed.
What else did he have to do for anyone to think that this was not seven ways illegal; pull down his trousers and say “suck me”? :rolleyes:
To the OP. Go to the cops, You are right it was a (blatant) sexual assault, where he employed a position of power to get his way and lied about the nature of the act.
He could turn it into a she said/he said thing, plus he would say that she returned the next day of her own volition…
But I suggest going to the police for two reasons:
It will leave a record should he do this again and maybe it will be a wake up call to him that this is not acceptable. For all we know, he might be getting worse with this behavior and he’ll continue this with others.
Definitely speak with other women at the studio. He might be famous for being handsy and nobody has done anything beyond gossip. When I was in ballet, there were a couple of guys like this but everyone looked the other way.
I’m torn on this. On one hand I think “damn girl how dumb can you be?” And on the other I think “damn that guy is a creepy creep.” I vote reporting him thru yoga channels and nix the cop report.
I get the feeling this isn’t the first time you’ve done a bit of thinking about how a sexual predator might cast doubt upon his victims and discourage them from reporting him.
Was this reflection in your mirror?
Without evidence, if there is no evidence, then andrea_green’s allegations are still [del]hearsay[/del] her word against his. To fire the creep immediately may give the creep ammunition for a lawsuit for wrongful termination.
Report the creep to that yoga group. If there are other yoga sites or groups, share what happened to you. And I do vote for filing a police report if a crime indeed was allegedly committed.
But andrea_green’s allegations are still [del]hearsay[/del] her word against his. The creep, no matter how creepy, has his rights, and the last time I checked, in this country we’re still innocent until proven guilty.
ETA: not hearday, but her word against his.
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This was not your fault.
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See above.
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Insist on this person losing his job.
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If he does not, name and shame the studio.
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Go to the police if you choose. It’s a big step that could be cathartic or could create a huge wave of shit for you. Sadly, as this thread aptly shows, women are seldom just believed in these situations. They are blamed, shamed, and made to feel like they ‘wanted’ the attention, or they were ‘asking for it’. This is bullshit of course, but it’s something to keep in mind when deciding to pursue legal options.
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I’m very sorry this happened to you. It’s not your fault.
GreenWyvern, that may be the worst opinion in the history of opinions on this board. If anyone ever asks me what “blame the victim” looks like, I’ll show them the post where you read about someone being felt up by their yoga instructor and wondered who the real predator was. Multiple times you interpret her “said nothing” as consenting to the assault. I dearly hope you look for more active consent in your own romantic life.
What a shitty thing to happen, andrea. Going to the cops might make it harder for this asshole to assault others; if nothing else, it’ll let him know he’s being watched.
Everything you’ve described is the mark not of an innocent man but of a practiced predator.
Yes, I think it’s worth emphasizing that all those moments when andrea_green was uncomfortable with the instructor’s behavior but wasn’t certain if maybe it was an accident or he was just trying to be nice…that was because he wanted her to feel uncertain. His success as a predator depends upon it.
It seems that some people here assume that all accusations of sexual assault must always be true. Or that (contrary to every established principle of justice) they must be assumed to be true until proved false.
I suggest you read this balanced and thoughtful Slate article about false rape accusations:
False rape accusations exist, and they are a serious problem.
By Cathy Young
“However, in challenging what author and law professor Susan Estrich has called “the myth of the lying woman,” feminists have been creating their own counter-myth: that of the woman who never lies.”
NOTE:
- I am NOT suggesting that all, or even large percentage of accusations are false.
- I am NOT suggesting that the OP’s accusations are false or exaggerated.
- I AM suggesting that we should not rush to judgment on a story that sounds improbable on the face of it. It is improbable because any normal woman would have objected or walked away very early in the sequence of events described, or would have stopped meeting alone with the man.
I should also like say that I am NOT at all anti-feminist in my views. In fact I’m very liberal. However, I do care very deeply about justice.
I would certainly like to hear again from the OP. I would also like to hear from some of the other women in that class. I’d like to know what their views are about the instructor, about the OP, and about the relationship between the instructor and the OP. I certainly hope the studio will ask them.
The criminal justice system can decide who is telling the truth in this specific case. That’s their job. Not the internet.
How the criminal justice system works has nothing to do with how real life works. Presuming innocence is something you do in a courtroom to make sure that someone doesn’t go to jail who was actually innocent. It is a failsafe for the system. It is not a guide for interpersonal interactions.
This is a situation where someone has reported something that happened to them, and asked for advice on how to deal with it. You aren’t being asked to determine whether what they asked is true. You’re just being asked for advice for what to do, given that what is being said is true. If it isn’t true, there is literally no downside. But there is plenty of downside otherwise, as I will get to momentarily.
Furthermore, even if this were a court of law and you were actually tasked with determining what happened, you would not be called upon to invent possible excuses for the accused. That is the job of the defense attorney only.
One of the reasons that rape and sexual harassment victims avoid trials is that what the defense attorney has to do is so emotionally scarring to them that they don’t think they can mentally take it. And here you are doing the same thing, without any duty whatsoever. You are potentially hurting a victim by attacking their credibility.
What’s worse, bringing up the “presumed innocent until proven guilty” is commonly used as a way to minimize accusations. Because, by their very nature, the accusation will often not have yet been proven. It allows people to dismiss the allegation before there has actually been any attempt at determining whether it is true.
And, because I’m not sure I can get across how bad this is, you went out and created a whole list of reasons for why it might not be sexual assault. Literally no one has any obligation to do this. Not even defense attorneys actually do this. They at the very least work to get one single story, with their client.
You say you don’t think they are lying, but you specifically ask who was the real predator? That is not the act of someone who isn’t trying to discredit the other person.
If you had been raped. And you were asking for help, and everyone was spending time trying to come up with reasons that you were wrong or lying, and specifically asked if maybe you were the actual predator in the situation, would you be happy with that? Or would you want people to comfort you and try to help you figure out what you need to do?
Because the latter is what the OP asked for, and you are not giving it. You are showing a distinct lack of empathy in doing this when you don’t have to. If you were to do this to a friend, and that friend were to no longer speak to you afterwards, I would not blame them.
Sympathy. Empathy. Those are what is necessary in normal interactions. Not the rules of court.
So someone on the internet posts a story that seems a bit strange, but I’m not allowed to point out that it seems a bit strange?
Yes, you absolutley can point that out. What you have done is being shown a tiger and argued that “how can we sure thats not a giraffe”.
Agreed.
To recap, the OP was felt up by the instructor, an experience that had never happened in the previous hundreds of classes.
She then sticks around after the class has ended and is even alone with the instructor.
She then comes back two days later for another class.
She stays after class again and is alone with him. Again.
She then moves into a private room with him, notices he is sporting a hard-on and still allows him to give her a back rub.
I mean for fuck’s sake, come on.
If you see this as victim-blaming, have at it. I say you don’t deliberately put yourself in a vulnerable situation. I can see with the first class, she may have been too shocked to know how to respond. But to come back two days later and have it play out all over again? Why the hell would you put yourself in harm’s way?
In all those transactions, do you see:
- Any indication she consented to anything else than incidental touching?
- That what was done was ever represented as anything besides related to the undertaking of yoga, as opposed to what actually transpired
- Any situation where a reasonable person would have concluded that in the circumstances consent for sexual touching was given/or could be believed to have been given.
The answer to all of the above is fuck no.
Of course, he was an instructor who was in a position of some authority over the individual concerned. That sitaution makes even freely given consent suspect.
And, the OP should go to the cops. Don’t listen either of the scolds saying “you never said anything so its ok” or “ohhhhh, rape culture, women won’t be belived” since niether are true or relevant.
Well you sort of asked and answered your own question there for me.
Yes the answer is “fuck no”.
Having established that, you don’t go back for a second class taught by the same guy and allow the situation to play out all over again.
Of course she should report this guy. One to put a stop to it, two so that it doesn’t happen to someone else and three because the bastard deserves it.
Just so we’re clear, I don’t think the OP deserved this or had it coming, but if ever there were a situation to declare what-the-fuck-were-you-thinking-?, when you went back to that second class, this is it.
So you’ve apparently learned that it’s wrong to call this hearsay. You should also learn that it’s wrong to say sh has no evidence. Her testimony is evidence. And it’s very strong evidence, the kind that gets people locked up all the time.
And yet, in your first post:
Followed by…
Are you sure you haven’t already condemned the OP?
Part of the reason some of us are suggesting she (I presume she) not resort to the legal system is precisely because of this attitude. In a court of law, this may be warranted. The presumption of innocence is not some trivial thing, and this would-be assaulter deserves the benefit of the doubt as much as anyone. However, that experience would likely be harrowing and expensive for the both of them, with the potential to damage one or both of their credibilities and/or livelihoods for good. Not every social conflict has to be resolved in the courts, and the advice here is to simply accuse him of inappropriate behavior and to go from there. He will have the opportunity to defend himself to the studio, to other students, to whomever the OP chooses to go to.
This is not despite the ambiguity in her story but because of it. The accusation starts the process of conflict resolution, where the hope is not that this teacher will be jailed for life on her accusation alone, but that he will reflect on his actions and not attempt this again. Where there is a power differential as in a teacher-student relationship where a presumption of care and professional touch exists, the duty is on him to be extra diligent in his behavior and not to trespass into sexual ambiguity, and further, not to even SEEK sexual consent in the space and context of a yoga class setting. It is an abuse of power and a betrayal of an implicit trust in one’s teacher.
That is why we’re saying “it’s fucking creepy, complain about him” instead of “lock the bastard up for life and cut off his balls”. The standard of evidence for the two are not the same, and we are not asking for a mob of pitchforks to attack the man, only for a self-proclaimed victim to stand up to defend him/herself by speaking out so that 1) the accuser does not attempt the same thing again, if indeed he did so on purpose and 2) other people may judge the accusation by its own merit and be warned of the teacher’s behaviors. They may say “hell, the OP probably asked for it, I love this teacher and trust him and would take his all over again… in fact I’m going to defend him” or “gee, I’m really glad she warned me… I don’t want to take a yoga class with some creepy guy!”. Too often these situations devolve into silence and self-blame (“maybe I should’ve screamed when he first touch me… why didn’t I say no… I should’ve known earlier…”), and I would argue this slow, subtle progression was probably done so on purpose so that he could plant a reasonable doubt in the OP’s mind, and potentially in the minds of others.
If this was a one-time thing on his part, maybe he’ll apologize for his actions, or maybe he’ll try to defend himself using the logic you just did, or maybe it’ll uncover a pattern of questionable behaviors towards his students and make the yoga community shun this man because of his inability to keep professional boundaries. But any of those would depend on the OP speaking up, not silently brooding over what happened.