Note “in the primaries”, there: If (as seems likely) he ends up as the Democratic candidate in the general election, then I will without hesitation give him as much support as I am able.
But I don’t think he’s the candidate we need. We need someone who will fight back against what the Republicans are doing, and I don’t think he has it in him to do so. Why do I think this? Because he’s already had opportunities to fight against them, and he passed those opportunities up.
Think of all of the perversions of democracy committed by Mitch McConnell, from 2008 to 2016. All of those things, McConnell only had the power to do, because Joe Biden decided to give him the power. Yes, I know that it’s traditional for the President of the Senate to delegate those powers to the Senate Majority Leader. Lots of things are traditional, like the Senate holding votes. But the law is that the President Pro Tem presides over the Senate only when the President of the Senate does not.
We don’t need a president who will blindly fall back on tradition when it favors the Republicans, while letting them gut tradition when it suits them. We need a president who will fight back just as hard as the Republicans are fighting. And the record shows that Biden would not be that president.
Currently, my support in the primaries is for Warren. That might change. But I don’t think it will change to Biden.
Ok. Seems like a lot of people agree with you. I don’t support him either, but mainly because I think he’s a weak candidate. In addition Trump is looking weaker and I think the idea that only Biden can beat Trump is fading.
I’m not sure who I’m supporting in the Primaries. I like Biden, Warren and Buettigeg. I saw a blurb on Google’s news page from Fox. Looks like they had a poll, and found Biden beating Trump in Wisconsin by, I believe, 9 points. I’m not committing at this point.
I also don’t support Biden in the primary, for a variety of reasons. I would support almost any of the other Democrats, including Tulsi Gabbard, over Biden, at this time.
Just out of curiosity - why does this declaration deserve a new thread? The current Biden thread and the several primary threads aren’t of the subject matter close enough?
This thread has reminded me how overwhelmingly stupid our electoral system is. The decision of who the Democratic nominee will be will probably be made well before I even get a chance to vote.
I’m right there with you Chronos, Warren has edged ahead of Sanders for me. His Heart Attack this week pushed me over. But any of the Dems over Trump is easy.
Warren has been better on the campaign trail than Hillary was and as mentioned, Trump looks more vulnerable this time. I do worry that Warren has made enemies of both Wall Street and the nut in charge of Facebook.
Sanders never had a real chance of getting the nomination anyway. So now I’m hoping he tries to get his supporters behind Warren instead.
I only care about winning the election. Anything on top of winning the White House is sprinkles on the frosting. Look at Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. Therein lies the acid test. I know Joe Biden will win Pennsylvania. I’m not sure if Warren can. I like Joe’s chances in MI and WI more than I like Warren’s. When Wall Street Democrats say they’ll support Donnie Two Scoops over Warren, that makes me nervous. I don’t care how feisty Warren would be in dealing with McConnell, I only care if there would be a Democrat fighting with him. And I’m not sure it makes a difference which Democrat. Moscow Mitch can only be dealt with in two ways- make him minority leader or take away his seat. Sure, we need to elect women presidents and gay presidents. But not this time. This time we play the safest hand we have, and that’s Joe Biden. Biden is like two pair in the hand and we can either get a full house or at worst two pairs with our draw. Warren is like an inside 6 high straight flush. Great if the draw is lucky, otherwise not so much.
I have actually voted Republican in my life, but obviously can not with Trump/Pence being the candidates. I might have voted for Jeb Bush back in 2016, but not Ted Cruz. Just perspective on where I am coming from.
Anyway, I would honestly nominate Pete Buttigieg or Andrew Yang. I may be ignorant, but I think both have a pretty solid record and I don’t see any huge controversies about them.
Yeah, I’m fine with Elizabeth Warren and can even live with Biden if pressed. I’d love to see some candidates not in their 70’s. Bernie Sanders is a lesser pick for me.
Voting Democratic for President no matter what at this point, though. Trump, Pence, or whatever they throw at it must lose.
Like the OP I’ll have no problem backing him if he becomes the Democratic candidate. I think just about everyone supporting any Democratic candidate will as well.
I thought it needed a new thread because most of the threads that it could fit in are so general that talk on any one specific topic gets lost, and this is a very specific topic.
But that’s the point: Those aren’t the only two ways to deal with him. Biden could have dealt with him in a way that didn’t do either of those things, but he didn’t.
Well, OK, if it somehow came down to a two-person race between Biden and Gabbard, then I would support Biden. But that’s not a thing that’s going to happen, so I don’t feel any need to say much about that.
Honestly my vote will not matter, living in NJ, any Dem candidate will beat Trump here.
We won’t decide the Primary winner as we vote so late in the process.
But the Rust Belt, Florida, Virginia. These are the really important states this time around.
The Dem must keep Virginia & Minnesota. Then take states like Penn, Ohio, Florida, Michigan, Wisconsin & Indiana. They should be able to take enough of these back to beat Trump this time. Just Florida & Penn would make the difference, but go after all of these states.
I feel like there might be a chance at Arizona & North Carolina also.
So are we all just accepting the OP’s declaration that Biden could have siezed control of the Senate away from McConnell? I think he’s overestimating the power of the President of the Senate.
I would agree with this 100% except for the following:
For several reasons, Biden is likely to end up as an extremely weak candidate:
[ul]
[li] Every single candidate on the Democratic stage is smarter than Biden, even comparing with when Biden was in his prime.[/li][li] His ads and debate performances already seem lack-luster. I’m afraid that Trump would make mincemeat of him in a one-on-one debate.[/li][li] It may be that only stupid people are falling for the Hunter Biden scandal. But this election will be decided by stupid people.[/li][li] The other octogenarian has already had an infarction. Biden may also suffer an age-related health problem. If it strikes after the primaries settle on Biden, the D’s will plummet into chaos.[/li][li] Biden’s verbal gaffes are age-related — you see nothing like this decades ago. The gaffes may get worse, and may convince some voters he’s too old.[/li][li] Biden is out-of-touch with the young progressives who are trying to energize the Democratic Party.[/li][li] None of the above weaknesses apply to Warren. Even the stupidest voter may understand that the ‘Pocahontas’ insult reflects only on Trump’s asininity.[/li][/ul]
OTOH, polls suggest that a healthy Biden would have a much better chance of beating Trump than Warren would have. This may be a VERY scary election.
Nitpick- these are septuagenarians, not octogenarians.
Yes, I think Biden is too old. He should have ran in 2016. Had he been nominated, he would have won.
I’m not worried about the Pocahontas stuff with Warren, I worry about losing the Wall Street Democrats. Few in number, large in influence.
Yes, his debates have sucked ass. But I think debates matter little. In the general, people watch them to cheer for their team, not soberly decide a winner. People no longer vote on issues, they vote on who they’re rather share a beer with.
It’s too bad Bullock insisted on doing his job rather than jump into the fray early. I think he’d be a stronger candidate than those that might win the nomination.
Should Joe have a health crisis or indeed die after nailing down the nomination, I think we’d just go to the second place person, likely to be Warren.
If you guys just want to make this another primary thread, fine. But the OP’s criticism of Biden is based on a fundamental misconception of how the Senate works.
I’m glad a new thread was started and I think that should happen more frequently. No one wants to slog through a 6 page thread.
I am supporting Pete Buttigieg and volunteering for his campaign. I will support the eventual Democratic nominee regardless of who it is.
I’m very active on #ElectionTwitter and I’m well aware it skews younger and more activist. Biden is going to be a very tough pill for many of them to swallow. The Iraq war and Clarence Thomas are really going to hurt Biden with millennials and Generation Z. Of course, the Senate was very different place back during the Thomas hearings and I’m sure Biden was also aware of the racial implications of defeating Thomas. But, in a #MeToo world, he looks damn awkward during those hearings. I just wish the progressive activists would also remember Biden’s fight to keep Bork off the court.
Biden has 3 decades of Senate votes, many of which don’t look good under a 2019 microscope. Plus, there will be many ‘voted for it before I voted against it’ type votes.
And, I do realize that many of Biden’s supporters don’t live in a Twitter bubble. Tweeting about Elizabeth Warren 20 times a day doesn’t give you an extra vote.
OK, let’s explore this. Does a vice president of one party have the ability to bring things to a vote even when in the minority on the floor? If that is true, then I think his time would have been better spent presiding over the Senate rather than being in the White House with the president. I don’t think it works that way, I think the Senate Majority Leader has more say than the presiding officer. But I could be wrong.