Ick ick ick (creepy old man)

The BBQ Pit
21

[QUOTE=Duck Duck Goose]
Geez, I can’t believe I missed this in the OP:
Your instincts are superb, hon. “Thought about reaching for the Windex”, indeed. Now, maybe he’s just indulging in a harmless little personal fantasy of some kind–but maybe not. Trust your instincts.

Time to buy some pepper spray. Seriously.
[/QUOTE]

Your answer to your problem is here:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=12761&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15707&isFirearm=Y

22

[QUOTE=lisacurl]
“Please stop staring at me, you are making me uncomfortable.”

“Asking the hours and days when I am scheduled to work is very intrusive and makes me uncomfortable. I am asking you to leave me alone.”

“Leave me alone. This is your last warning.”

Don’t hide from him, and don’t fall for the sweet old man bullshit. When he’s pushing attention when it isn’t wanted, it’s bullying and stalkerish, period. It’s up to you to make it perfectly clear that it is unwelcome. And if he continues after that, there needs to be consequences. It’s not a compliment, it’s not sweet, it needs to be addressed.

I second the advice of mentioning it to your manager, but it will fall to you to set the boundary when the man next shows up in your store.
[/QUOTE]

Ditto. Stand up to him and tell him exactly how you feel. If he backs down, you know it was harmless. If he doesn’t, you have another sort of problem, and at that point it can be taken to the next level.

23

Let’s not get crazy. The old dude may just have problems picking up on social cues and if **Kytheria **sets a clear and unequivocal boundary with him, he’ll go away ashamed of himself. If he doesn’t, well, then we can start worrying about personal protection for her.

24

[QUOTE=Tuckerfan]
You’re just not meeting the right older men, I can introduce you to them if you like. (Besides, Dirty Old Men need love, too, ya know. We get awful lonely some times.)

[/QUOTE]

I probably should have said, not as often. Or perhaps I have fallen off “the attractive to every creep and nutso on the planet” truck. Seems to me, these guys like to push their shit onto younger women, who may be hung up on “being nice” or who may be shy etc.
lisacurl has very good suggestions. I wouldn’t say “ask” I would say “I’m telling you to leave me alone.” No doubt he’ll go into a hurt, “can’t a fella admire a pretty girl routine” Tough shit. He’s inappropriate and he needs to know it.

Duck Duck -I wouldn’t refer him to her manager to ask about her work schedule, I’d tell him I’d report him to my manager and security. Make sure your schedule is not posted anywhere visible to the public. Do you close this place? don’t do so alone.

But these are minor differences; just know Kytheria that many of us have been where you are now, and that you do have redress and you do have the right to place boundaries and insist on them being honored. good luck to you.

25

[QUOTE=DirkGntly]
Your answer to your problem is here:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=12761&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15707&isFirearm=Y
[/QUOTE]

Well, between that and the rocket launcher on the hood of my car, I will be well prepared to deal with society.

I agree with lisacurl, and Anaamika. The first step is to slap him down, preferably in the presence of his wife. Given the description of the man in the OP, I think that is all that will be needed.

26

The thing is, telling some Creepy Old Men to back off doesn’t always work. I know because I used to go to church with one. He must have been in his 80’s or 90’s and looked as if he’d blow away if you blew on him hard and his mannerisms were that of an old-fashioned Southern gentleman. After repeatedly being hugged by him, I took him aside and told him in private that, due to experiences with other older gentlemen who did not act like gentlemen, I did not want him to touch me. He lamented about the terrible state of the world, yet, a few months later, he quite literally backed me into a corner and took hold of my elbow. I’d made it clear to him that I didn’t appreciate his attentions, yet he persisted. Now, I’m not worried about an 80-something old man raping me, but it does put me in an awkward position. I did talk to our priest about him after he backed me into a corner and I changed churches a while later for unrelated reasons. I was also rather relieved when he died, I’m afraid.

Kythereia, do tell your manager and make it clear to COM that you aren’t interested in talking to him.

Sheesh! What is with guys like this, anyway? I’m afraid that when I was in my 20’s and 30’s, a 60 or 70 year old man was not on my list of types I’d like to date. If that makes me an agist, so be it!

27

But that’s what I mean, Siege. She hasn’t even told him once to back down yet. And that is always the first step…or at least, in cases where it might do something. I’ve had a few creepy men bothering me and in almost all the cases they’ve backed down once I’ve told them firmly, “I’m not interested in you, thanks.” Sometimes they get mad, sometimes hurt, but only once have I had a guy take it further and then I moved up a step, too - I threatened to call the police on him next time he bothered me and that stopped that, too.

28

God, this thread reminds me of when I worked at an “unclaimed freight” retail-type store.

We had this old guy come in frequently, wearing the same thing-- a clingy t-shirt and a pair of tight green spandex shorts. To paint a more vivid picture here are more details:

-Dude was pushing 70 at least
-He had shoulder length, unkempt, white hair
-He did NOT appear to wear underwear or anything supporting his junk, so it snaked down his left leg.

  • He rarely bought anything
  • He didn’t act like a “shopper” if you know what I mean

His MO was to seek out female customers and stockers squatting down to look at items near the floor. He would come up close to them, making sure his thinly veiled trouser snake was at eye level with them. We (the cashiers) complained to several managers several times. They told us to alert them as soon as he came through the front door again. When he did, the general manager and our cop on duty ganged up on him and told him that would not be permitted to enter the store again unless he wore more appropriate clothing. He acted like he had NO idea what they were talking about. I believe they told him they had security footage of him doing his thing (which by the way was true) and they wouldn’t hesitate to prosecute. After that, he was escorted out and never returned.

BOO CREEPY OLD MAN indeed.

29

D’ya think they were always like this or did it come with age?
My mom would have called a young man doing this sort of stuff a masher or a wolf. I don’t know what we called it (being an asshole?).

Whatever-ycch.

What makes a man do this, anyway? Does he hate women? Never have a date or sexual relationship? Any ideas?

30

Well, he’s married, so presumably he had at least one date, and has some kind of sexual relationship.

Being a “wolf” or a “masher” means “coming on too strong in an overtly sexual way”. It means, “I want to have sex with you and I don’t know how to persuade you, or don’t have the patience to work with you on this.”

But, stalking (if that’s what he’s doing) isn’t about “sex” or “lust”–it’s about power, and fear.

31

Kythereia, next time he comes in I think you should tongue kiss him and make his day. Old farts need love too.

Just get him to take his false teeth out first.

32

I’ve been wondering about this ever since I read Kythereia’s OP.

The whole thing makes me shudder. And yet…

I am a man, (who according to some definitions) is middle-aged. I see no indication that my interest in women is going to go away just because I am over 40.

The age-range of women who have interested me has certainly broadened as I have gotten older (it’s a good thing if I can get the attention of a good woman between 30 and 45, for instance), but the lower numerical limit of that age has not necessarily increased as quickly as it might.

Actually fulfilling that interest in a Much Younger Woman, however, would be dependent on so many other factors (not the least, mutual cultural differences and expectations of external censure), that it is unlikely that I would have the oppurtunity to pursue it successfully.

And what do these other factors ensue? Seeing the other person as a person!

I suspect that we men are frequently hardwired to be interested in the female form. I know from my own experience that it’s often very difficult to break past the distracting shell of appearance and just deal with the person opposite me. But that’s what a real man does. He sucks in his gut, puts the little brain down below under firm control of the big brain above, and deals coolly, civilly, and professionally with women, no matter how distracted he might want to be.

Now consider the historical tendency to treat women as property (to be fought over, handed over upon marriage, etc). Consider an older man raised to believe that women are subordinate. Consider the ageing process.

I can see a possibility that some sad, lonely old man just wants to relive a better day, when he could seek out women under the guidance of his culture and be welcomed. I have some sympathy for this man.

BUT.

That potential sympathy should in no way take second place to a tiger-like defence of your safety and personal space, Kythereia.

Diplomatically refusing the first advance of a nostalgic old man, or of anyone you are not interesated in, is one thing. Kicking the metaphorical or physical ass of some creep who is looking at you like you are just an object is another.

These Creepy Old Men are not seeing their desired partners as people, just as fantasy images and goals. They do not want to know your hopes and dreams, they do not want to learn from you, they do not want to relate to you as an equal. They just want the object.

And you have every right to request the aid of your management, store security, police, whatever, in your defence.

33

Well said, Sunspace.

I was just wondering “out loud” re men-I wasn’t being specific to this COM.

Duck -I agree. Wolf is more of what we would call a player (playuh?) now, I suppose. Mashers more likely to cop a feel. COM falls somewhere else on the ick scale–but that does not make him harmless.

And just when does the “raised to see women as subordinate” type die off? I was a kid when the Feminist movement and bra burning etc went on. I am now 44. Sooner or later, this excuse has to run through its statute of limitations, no?

34

[QUOTE=Kythereia]
Okay, Mr. Creepy Old Man (COM).

You’re always wearing the same suit and same blue ballcap, and you come into my work all the time, every day, with your wife, who is a short plump little babushka doll in her purple coat.

You and your wife pass out pamphlets for the Baha’i meetings at the community centre. You offer to read the cashiers’ palms to tell their fortune and sing love songs to them. You and your wife always buy us cookies, or chocolates, or granola bars to share downstairs in the lunchroom. You are, in short, kooky, but mostly harmless and sweet.

But lately you’ve been coming up to my cash all the time. You told me the last time you came in that you were ‘spiritually attracted’ to me, at which point I started contemplating the useful spritzing properties of the glass cleaner underneath my desk. It got so that I’d start hiding from you every time you came near the cash. Today when I was caught with a bunch of people in a rush, you came and stared at me for half an hour, and then started asking me what days I was scheduled to come into work.

I really really don’t like having to duck into the back storage room every time he comes into the store. And he always comes in. :frowning:
[/QUOTE]

So, are you going to go out with me, or what? In addition to my spiritual attraction, I am beginning to have feelings for your nice blue squirt bottle!

35

[QUOTE=Cemetery Savior]
So, are you going to go out with me, or what? In addition to my spiritual attraction, I am beginning to have feelings for your nice blue squirt bottle!
[/QUOTE]

Auugh! squirt squirt squirt
Seriously, thank you all for your suggestions and help–they mean a lot. I’m definitely going to make it clear the next time he comes in that he’s making me uncomfortable, and lay it down more firmly with the supervisor.

And if that fails, then I’ll drop a bunch of the heavier magazines on his head. :slight_smile:

36

[QUOTE=alice_in_wonderland]
Kythereia, next time he comes in I think you should tongue kiss him and make his day. Old farts need love too.

Just get him to take his false teeth out first.
[/QUOTE]

Christ no. My grandfather is that kind of guy. For the record, he’s always been that kind of guy - we’re happy that now he’s 92 and his hair has gone grey, people classify him under “old” and, as soon as he starts “doing his thing”, reclassify under “dirty old man”.

The last thing you should do with those bastards is anything that encourages them. Gramps takes as encouragement anything short of a backhand slap across the face or a very loud and clear (teacher’s voice style) “do NOT dare do that EVER AGAIN. Do. You. Understand?”

37

[QUOTE=Nava]
Christ no. My grandfather is that kind of guy. For the record, he’s always been that kind of guy - we’re happy that now he’s 92 and his hair has gone grey, people classify him under “old” and, as soon as he starts “doing his thing”, reclassify under “dirty old man”.

The last thing you should do with those bastards is anything that encourages them. Gramps takes as encouragement anything short of a backhand slap across the face or a very loud and clear (teacher’s voice style) “do NOT dare do that EVER AGAIN. Do. You. Understand?”
[/QUOTE]
Gramps sounds like he should have been neutered about 70 years ago. No offense.

38

Kyth, want to borrow some intimidating guys of mine? They’re good at standing around looking intimidating. Really. They’re also good at saying, “Push off, jerk.” while looming.

Seriously, tell your manager that you’re worried, and list all the annoying things he’s done, in detail. He should be tossed out for bothering you so much. Is there any store security?

39

I don’t know if it will help your cause at all, but just for fun, here’s some excerpts from the Kitab-i-Aqdas (Baha’i Holy Book) you could trot out to let him know he’s breaking a whole buncha his rules:

Paragraph 19:“Ye have been forbidden to commit murder or adultery, or to engage in backbiting or calumny”

Paragraph 61: “God hath bidden you to show forth kindliness towards My kindred . . .”

Paragraph 64: "Follow not the promptings of the self, for it summoneth insistently to wickedness and lust; [snip] “show forth piety and manifest the fear of God.”

Please, please don’t think that all Baha’is are like this jerk. In fact, I think you should contact the Baha’i center, tell them about your dealings with this guy, and let them try to deal with him.

40

[QUOTE=Kythereia]
Okay, Mr. Creepy Old Man (COM).

You’re always wearing the same suit and same blue ballcap, and you come into my work all the time, every day…
[/QUOTE]

Gee, I always wondered what had happened to Tommy Lasorda…