Idiocy in NYS (Property Tax Cap)

Or…
In Today’s Episode of Tilting at Windmills, and Complaining About Axiomatic Conditions:
The former governor of NY made the idea of a state-wide property tax cap an goal of his this winter. AIUI the reasons for such include: NYS is hemorrhaging jobs, and losing tax base, because it has some of the highest tax burdens in the Union. Property taxes are one leg of this.

Now, because property taxes are locally set, based on local assessments and generally based on meeting school budgets, it is impossible to speak about a statewide property tax rate. I can find a cite for NYC property tax rates - where they range from 10%-15% of the assessed value! I’ve found another for an explanation of how property taxes rates are set in NYS. But still people in Albany are talking about putting in some kind of cap, like Massachusetts’ Prop 2 1/2. Personally, after having seen Massachusetts’ experience with it, I oppose the idea of a mandated tax cap. The simplest way to explain my opposition can be summed up with a quote from the Wikipedia article:

Now, we get to today’s news. The State’s Teacher’s Union (the single most powerful and influential lobby in Albany, btw.) is coming out against a property tax cap. If they’d left it there, I’d be shocked to find myself in agreement with one of my usual bête noire. Instead they’re putting their influence behind the idea of a "circuit breaker.’ And by ‘circuit breaker,’ the people advocating that solution are suggesting that the State be expected to refund monies to property owners below a certain income level or assessed value. But specifically excepting business or rental property

Or, to put things another way: They are advocating artificially raising the property tax burden even higher on business. Which will lead to even more pressure on businesses to leave the state in favor of political and economic environments that are less oppressive. Which will even further reduce the state’s own income, esp. as people follow the businesses in an effort to find work!

Then there’s the whole rental property idea. I certainly don’t object to property taxes being paid on rental property, but let’s be honest here: No landlord with the brains to blow their nose is going to “eat” property taxes, instead property taxes are part of the calculation for figuring what rent will be, and thus are passed on as a so-called hidden tax to the renter. So, if one is poor, but owns property, one can expect a break - but if one is too poor, or with too bad a credit history, to own a house, these idiots are advocating socking them even harder? In the name of helping poor and lower-income people?

NYS has one of the largest debt loads in the nation. I’m not talking personal debt - I mean public debt. According to this, in 2004 NYS was second only to CA. I doubt that’s changed. The risk, it seems to me, and to others quoted in the news stories above, of having the state take the burden of tax relief for low income property tax is that it will do nothing to encourage fiscal responsibility, rather it will just shift the load from local municipalities to the state, without any accountability. According to a couple of the articles the estimated cost, to the state, of the ‘circuit breaker’ idea is $1.5 billion. And you know what they say: “A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon we’ll be talking real money!”

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all in favor of trying to mandate some way of controlling spending in all levels of government, but the idea of a property tax cap is not the way to do it! And this ‘circuit breaker’ idea is even worse!

Stop advocating “we’ll get someone else to pay for this” bullshit! When dealing with governmental spending, there’s very little “someone else,” because it all comes out of our collective pockets, one way or another! And, if the effect of a more realistic view of public spending, that it comes out of everyone’s pockets, means that schools, roads, and the other public services have to sell themselves to the public, so much the better!

New York City property taxes are actually quite low, as opposed to say Long Island.

I am out in Texas, in a place with a property tax cap, and they are going further and further into debt despite a housing boom where the property value are skyrocketing.

FYI, in New York City, the assessed valuation is actually a small percentage of the market value (which varies by property class and sometimes other factors), so it isn’t 10-15% of the market value, but much less than that.

There is another hidden time bomb in property tax caps*: they will eventually stagnate the market. Let’s say, for example, that you cap property tax rises at 2% but the “value” of property rises at 10%. After a period of time, the value of the property has doubled, but the taxes for the current owner have only increased by about 1/10th of that. Now the current owner would like to sell. But he can’t afford to buy a new, similarly priced house because the tax burden is too high. Or someone new to the area will pay about 40% more in property tax than his neighbor.

*This assumes that taxes are capped only for current owners and can float up if the property is sold.

Shibboleth, a tax cap, such as the Prop 2 1/2 model, which I think is the preferred plan mentioned here in NYS, places the limit on the total assessment for the municipality - not the individual property rates. If you follow this link, it offers a quick and dirty explanation of the method of how property taxes in NYS are figured. Basically, the municipality determines how much money must be raised via property taxes, and then looks at the total assessed value of property in the municipality, and sets that year’s property tax rates by splitting the property tax burden evenly across the board.

The ‘circuit breaker’ model, however, does seem to have the potential for the scenario you’ve proposed.
Billdo, thanks for the explanation about the difference between NYC assessed values and market values. Do you, or anyone else, have an explanation for why the assessed values and the market values don’t match? That still seems insane, even though I can see how once it started changing from the current model would be resisted…

It is because there are very few tax assesors and they are not very well watched.

Let’s just say they make a lot of money on the side.

Hmm? Are you saying that a million dollar house’s taxes are based on it being worth 100,000-150,000 or that the taxes on that house are 1$100,000-150,000? I think you’re saying the former, but that doesn’t sound possible. My town bases property taxes at 110% of assessment (if the house is worth $100,000 taxed as if it’s worth $110,000) which is apparently the highest rate allowed by state law…

The taxes are based on it’s having an assessed vaue of a percentage of fair market value (as adjusted). If your town bases property taxes at 110% of fair market value, New York bases it on 15% of market value (or whatever rate that is applicable to the property class).