Their take on geometry is rather interesting.
tomndebb: A population rate to get us from 2 individuals to 6 billion individuals in 4,000 years (shouldn’t that be 6,000 BTW?) utterly ignores the rates of death from disease and misadventure and the suppression of birth rates due to lower food gathering techniques prior to agriculture. It pretty well assumes that the population growth of the 19th century was the prevailing rate throughout human history.
It’s also got some very interesting historical consequences. To get from 2 individuals to approximately 6 billion individuals in 4000 years, we need a constant population growth rate of about 0.545%. Now if we look at the figures after 1000 years using this model, we get a value for total population of (2e^(0.005451000)), or fewer than 500 individuals.
That’s right IGOT, your model predicts that a thousand years before the birth of Christ, there were fewer than 500 people on the planet. Five hundred years later, there were a little more than 7000. Seven thousand people on the whole planet in 500 BC??? For mercy’s sake, when the Greeks fought the Persians in 490 BC, the Athenian infantry alone had ten thousand soldiers! Doesn’t this make it obvious to you that your model has to be way, way off? Clearly we can’t derive any valid conclusions about the age of the earth or the human species based on a model like yours that assumes steady population growth throughout all of human history.
Tars Tarkas wrote:
Pssst … that Square Earth webpage is a parody… 
You ought to know.
It might be even more interesting to IGOT… that the numbers of Israelites listed in various books of the Bible must be completely false in order for his model of population growth to be correct. Ironic isn’t it?
Kimstu:
Just a nitpick, Young Earth Creationists usually go for about 6000 years as the age of the Earth.
I did a few numbers, and the model still does not fit.
Assuming 4000 BC as the creation date, 6,000,000,000 people in 2000 AD and 2 in 4000 BC, and an exponential growth rate, I get 3.6 x 10[sup]-3[/sup] as the rate.
That gives us 2679 people on Earth in 2000 BC.
19,684 people on Earth in 1446 BC, during the Exodus.
In Numbers, Chapter 1 the number of Israelites is written as 603,550. That’s only counting men over 20 years old.
At the time of Christ’s birth the world population would have been about 3.6 million.
Sorry for the nitpicky correction, but your general assertion still holds.
This thread is too funny. I kept trying to throw in a point or two but you all just nabbed them before I could get there. But here’s a good one I’m latching onto. So BACK OFF!
Soooooo…what you’re saying is that there’s an all power God. This All Powerful God created the Earth in six days. He created the universe, gave us sunlight, gave us life and knowledge and He is omnipotent. But He, apparently, is incapable of keeping a few animals alive for a million years. That’s beyond His capabilities, huh? That’s too bad.
wevets: Just a nitpick, Young Earth Creationists usually go for about 6000 years as the age of the Earth.
Yeah, I know, but IGOT explicitly said 4000, so I went with that. Not that anything we say is likely to make an impression, of course; it was kind of a fun exercise though, I haven’t thought about exponential growth and diffy-q’s in a while. 
Oops, sorry!
I didn’t realize he had said 4000.
Well actually, on looking through some of his other posts, I see that he has used the 6000-year figure for the time since creation too. But the post where he first made the population claim did say “our present population would have developed from a single family in just 4 thousand years.”
Perhaps he meant that the family it developed from was Noah’s after the flood, which was 2000 years after Adam and Eve? I’m not conversant enough with Bible-literalist theories to know whether that’s a possibility. In any case, I’m sure that someone with IGOT’s demonstrated concern for consistency and truth will lose no time in clearing this discrepancy up for us. cough
Too much nonsense here to go after everyone. Let me look through your responses…
to TOMNDEB
"we may never find all the intermediates’?? You don’t have any. Those you have ‘amphioxis’(sp) archyoptrix (sp) are horrible at best. No intermediary between vertebrates and invertebrates. That alone should snap everyone out of their evolutionary delusion. Archyoptrix had a bereast bone and wings. We call those birds! Wheres your half bird intermediate?
“throughout hundreds of millions of years” you quote this and its laughable. With that type of time line there should be fossil evidence (and intermediates) reaching the moon. The worst part is your only link between vertebrates and invertebrates has to be seen through a microscope and what poses as possible back bone is highly suspect. To the point of saying a one room shack be called the Georgia dome.
The Genesis account of creation is specific calling each of the days of creation followed by night and morning. To say its millions of years is calling God a liar and if you don’t think thats a clear road to damnation is ludicrous.
to MARS HORIZON
To worry more about name calling than dispelling false hoods is a cowards way out. You quote the Bible. Remember when Saul heard the israelites were going to make a pact with the ammonites. He burned with anger at the thought. Seeing people in total rejection to Gods word should burn anyone with anger. Besides i’ve read a cecil adams book, me saying idiot and knucklehead is rated G to what he says. I thought you guys would have read his stuff. Im sure when Christ was kicking out the money traders in His church, he had a few choice words for them.
SCOTTH
GLad you brought it up. We see stars light from millions of miles away. Because they weren’t that far away when they were created. In simple terms using info from Russell Humphreys “starlight and time” As God created the expanse of stars, He uses terms such as rolling outward. Therefore, the stars were appearing as the universe was unfolding. Check Revelations, you’ll see this same idea is having in the end times when the Bible says the stars will be rolled up like a scroll. A sort of opposite as was in the beginning.
TRACER
As you see I didn’t use the speed of light was much faster bit. Speed of light has slowed down since Adams sin though. The Bible states that from that sin all creation groaneth and travail. Ah HA 2nd law of thermodynamics. Everything tends to disorder. So much for the idio-- (sorry. I’ll try to cut down) who think the Bible isn’t scientific.
Bunnygirl
To go to bed with liars and false teahcer as evolutionists is shameful. I don’t know why you’d want their approval. You simply can’t have it both ways. To say death and dying has been going on for millions of years totally negates that Adam was the first sinner and brought death upon all creation. This then nagates the whole purpose Christ diead on the cross… to correct the sin (bringing on death) that Adam made.
Check into the nearest christian bookstore. Pick up a creationist book because they have the answers. Quit wasting your money on Britny Spears cds or you’ll continue to be ignorant about Gods Word.
ULTRAFILTER
The Bible never mentions the earth is square. Job 26:7 explains that the earth is suspended in space. The obvious comparison between the spherical sun and moon. The revelation misquote you bring up was describing the four cardinal directions. Any simple person can see a ship slowly slip down from the horizon as it sails off. To think that humans thousands of years ago couldn’t do the same is showing ignorance on your part.
Kimstu
Your missing the point. Its not an exact figure. Obviously due to assorted of variables. But the figure complains within range of the creation model of a 6 thousand year old universe rather than the 14 million year model of evolutionists. You couldn’t massage the numbers enough to stretch it out to 14 million years. Come on now!?!
If you saw 4000 it was probably followed by BC add the 2000 years now after and you get 6000 years old. Sorry 4000 plus 2000 stumped you.
WEVETS
Im not sure what difference race population numbers in the Bible has anything to do with a summation on how far back would it be for the first man and woman to have been to get current population numbers? Go back to your gameboy. Before you do, do those same numbers with 2 people going back a conservative 14 million years when “cave men” were around. There isn’t enough planets in our galaxy to hold all the people you’ll get.
ENDERW24
All I can say is “WHAT??” “God couldn’t keep a few animals alive a million years?” What for? What on earth are you talking about? How old are you? Even progessive creationists wouldn’t make that statement.
PS I’ll try to keep the name calling down since its a distraction to most of you. Although the lunacy of thoughts in here is a distraction to me.
Still bearing false witness, I see.
The figures used for the 6,000 year model prove that no tinkering with the numbers will get close to the historically known numbers–and you continue to lie that Evolutionary thought calls for a 14 million year history for humanity when it actually only calls for a 1.5 million year history.
Your comments on archaeopteryx are, as usual, inaccurate. It does indeed have birdlike features, but it also has reptilian (actually, dinosaurian) features. Claiming that is “just a bird” will, of course, show the lie stated earlier that the feathers were “manufactured” to make the creature look like a bird.
BTW, do you have any on-line citations for the claim that erosion would destroy the continents if the Earth were millions of years old? The only on-line reference I could find was at the liar Hovind’s site, and he provides no backup. (Although he did claim that the Niagara Falls were retreating up the river at five feet per year, a very clear lie.) I doubt my small local library stocks fantasy works such as Vandeman’s.
Why? It takes a fairly rare situation for an animal to be instantly buried in an anaerobic condition before it can rot or be eaten by scavengers, and it requires the burying compound to be one of rather few soil types that will aid in the preservation. The surprising thing is not that we don’t have thousands of fossils, but that we have any.
The Isrealites were going to make a pact with the Ammonites, eh?
You’re a hoot, you know that?
Can you give one good reason why the population growth of people must be as large as you say it is in the past? It could easily been zero, or even negative for a time, which would completely mess up your estimates of “not enough planets in the galaxy.”
And what is with this “conservative 14 million years?” According to genetic studies, the ancestors of humans spilt off from their common ancestor with chimpazees 5 to 10 million years ago. And it is likely closer to 5 million. Over 10 million years ago there weren’t any humans, or even any hominids.
A better reason to keep the name-calling down is that it is against the rules you agreed to when you signed up to post here. Honest people honor their agreements.
Now, Dr Lao, you’re going to confuse him. He’s going to look at your 5 million year figure for the genus separation and see my 1.5 million year figure for the origin of the species, and his head will explode.
(That does not change the fact of his dishonest use of the 14 million year figure, of course. Does anyone know whether it is Hovind or Gish or some other Nine Commandment Believer who is publishing this “14 million year” figure?)
Hmmm … I wonder if the extinct marine mollusk Ammonites were named after the Ammonite people from the Old Testament…
It looks that way. The New Latin word ammonite appears to be derived from the Latin cornu Ammonis, or “horn of Ammon” (at least according to http://www.m-w.com/).
I don’t see how this solves this problem even remotely. If the universe “unrolled/unfolded” using 5.5 of the literal six days, (I know that isn’t how you say the story goes, but I am giving you as much use as the available time as I can) you still have the same problem. You wind up with stars millions and even billions of lightyears away and only 6000 years for the light to get here. Dropping the stars off as the edge of space is created helps not one bit.
A more interesting interpretation of this would be that God created all the stars and galaxies inside a space with the maximum demensions of 6000 lightyears in radius. And then “inflated” the universe to its present size. This seems more convincing at first, but doesn’t really help. There would be a tremendous redshift problem here. (I assume you are doing this gyration to get light on the way that we can see today from distant places) You now have light on the way to us from short range, we then stretch the intervening space out. The light gets stretched right along with it. This would cause a 22 or 23 octave shift downward in frequency. (Using a Minimum size of 4 Billion lightyear radius universe today).
The 6000 lightyear radius starting point is still non sense really. But that is as optimistic a starting point as I can give you from your idea.